Originally Posted by Capt Chris M
Drawing E is a 10-2 proper cast for a longer length of line and does not fit on the same clock as the cast in drawing A. Casts of a different lengths could still be from 10-2 but would require different sized clocks as the length of the stroke would be longer or shorter. The longer stoke in E does not fit inside A so how is a student to know what size clock to use. Using a clock does not help the student visualize a straight line path of the rod tip which the half to have to make a tight loop. One can make a stop at 10 and a stop at 2 10 different times and get 10 different sized loops.
I agree with what you are trying to portray but I find your drawings misleading in the following way.
I interpret the clock face with 10 and 2 o'clock to be separated by 4 hours out of the 12 hours or 120 degrees of the 360 degrees in a circle. I will confine my statements to illustration E only but the the same principle can be applies to the other drawings.
The rod that you say is pointing to 10 o'clock and at 2 o'clock do not have the rod butts in the center of the clock face and therefore, the rod tips really do not point at 10 and 2. The butt rotation is NOT 120 degrees between the two rods. Place the butts together and move them to the clock center and the angle formed by the rods is much less. The 10 o'clock rod tip would move to 11 and the 2 o'clock rod tip to 1 o'clock. That is why I said there is confusion about what the clock face represents. There is the stroke path which is the movement of the rod and reel from the rear position to the forward position and there is the rod butt rotation which is the degrees of rotation on the clock face.
I actually think the stroke path and rod butt rotation you have drawn for "E" would probably produce a tight loop BUT the angle of rod butt rotation is NOT from 10 to 2 as I explained above. If you look at my previous post, I said that I tell my students to go from 10 to 12, which is 60 degrees and the same 60 degrees is the rod butt rotation you have drawn for a rod butt rotation from11 to 1.
---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------
In the illustration below we can see that depending on how far we are casting, we need to adjust both the stroke length of the rod and the convexity of the stroke path to compensate for the greater rod shortening on the longer stroke. Notice the up/down motion of the elbow and the flexion/extension at the elbow that causes the rod handle to follow a convex path.
In this high speed stop motion study, we see the actual bending of the rod and the stroke path of the hand, elbow, and shoulder. This compact overhead stroke is the foundation stroke that the FFF suggests as a beginning stroke. It is the same stroke that forms the basis for the teaching and casting of Mel Krieger, Gary and Jason Borger. This stroke is identical to the prior drawing.
The stop motion photo comes from the Henry's Fork Lodge owned by Nelson Ishiyama. Nelson and I are college buddies, and he is the editor of Mel Krieger's book, The Essence of Flycasting
This is also the foundation cast that the Rajeff brothers use as their fishing casts. As a youth, Steve Rajeff was taught by Mel Krieger.
The Secret to an Easy Cast | The Henry's Fork Fly Fishing Lodge
Think of the elbow as the center of a circle and the forearm as the radius of the circle. As the elbow bends and unbends, the hand automatically follows the arc of the circumference in a convex path. The same thing happens at the shoulder joint so we have two convex motions added together to create an automatic convex rod tip path. Now choose a rod of the correct flexibility and your body anatomy automatically compensates for the rod shortening.
How remarkable is that? I happen to think that this correlation of body anatomy and stroke is the reason that some fly fishers seem to find a rod that just fits their casting stroke.
It is the basic casting stroke that Gary Borger taught me and it is the basic cast that Jason Borger recommends in his book, Nature of Flycasting.
Here's Jason demonstrating the start and stop points of the "foundation cast
Examine the series of photos and illustrations in the casting blog by Gary Borger. Note that the casting stroke drawing of Gary Borger and the stop motion photo above from the Henry's Fork Lodge are identical in their starting and stopping position.
Gary Borger » Blog Archive » Casting From the Shoulder
The take away point is that rod butt rotation does NOT require you to bend your wrist. The shoulder and elbow joints are designed to move the hand in an arc as I described in a previous post and this will result in rod butt rotation without any wrist flexion.
This simple foundation stroke is what I teach beginners. It is a simple motion that automatically adjusts for shortening for the rod chord length as the rod flexes.