i knew what you meant by needing some flies for bass that look like little trout. the ones that i bought at cabelas look pretty close to a little rainbow. i wouldnt call myself an advanced tyer, not by a long shot. still trying to get the elk hair to stay on top of the shank rather than rapping all the way around. getting better though. pretty soon it will be time to move on to a tougher fly. the copper johns i still get my spacing all fouled up. they almost look like store bought. i have only been tying since christmas of this year. i would post some pics if i knew how to get them on the page.