So, you have fished the San Juan so often that you have seen ALL the other guides in action several times for lengthy periods under different conditions, as well as examined each of them personally on their entomological knowledge? Frankly, that's hard to believe. I've been guided twice in all the times I've been on the San Juan - both times half-day float/half-day wade - and I would have said both guides I used - Jerry Saiz and Aaron Hyder - were the best guides on the San Juan that I have seen, but that's a long way from saying I've seen them all. Both times I was catching a lot of fish while the many other guided parties (& individual fly-fishers) around us were hardly catching any, and that's not because I'm some sort of super fly-fisherman. And, BTW, anyone who fishes the San Juan and hopes to catch anything will normally be using size 22 and smaller flies, usually nymphs/emergers, and be mending their line constantly - not to "get the fly down to the fish", but to keep line drag from causing the fly to drift unnaturally.

I'll just correct your assumptions.

Actually I have spent a lot of time on the San Juan and I HAVE had quite a bit of time to observe quite a few guides too... maybe not all.. but the San Juan isn't THAT BIG of an area and there aren't THAT many guides...in addition the guides are easy to spot and observe. For someone says they've been there, you'd think that would be an obvious statement, but i can see it won't be to you.

You can pull your head out now.

Andy Kim and the historic "24 fish hooked guaruntee". Gotta love it.

"You can pull your head out now". That's a jerk talking.

Bottom line is, you admit that you aren't familiar with all the 30+ registered SJ guides, and apparently you haven't talked with all these guides on their entomological knowledge as you earlier implied you had. So, while Kim may be a great guide, you're really overstating your case.

You've said what you want to say, and I have also. Let's just shut this back-&-forth down, as it's going nowhere and just corrupting the thread.

New to the board, first post here.

I haven't heard of the 20-20 Club before. I got one at Lake Almanor (Plumas County, California) in 2006, around 20"-21" Rainbow on a size 22 mayfly dry. This is a good pattern in the channel where the NF Feather River enters the lake. The fish was not very heavy for 20" and one of the locals gave me the nickname "Snake" in honor of the skinny trout. I hope that fish has gained some weight since I released it.

Oh, Never mind.... tried to funny and didn"t think I pulled it off.

what's the big freakin deal...........


20" fish on a 20 or smaller?????



Holy **** boys.............did that back in 1973.....when I was 13!!!!!


Routine up here in the pressured waters of the Penobscot......Kennebec.....and Grand Lake Stream.

Try a 28!!!!

I knew a client once who had a hand clicker counter to keep track of fish numbers.
He kept a journal and felt he had to surpass himself and his buddies, daily, monthly, and seasonally. He never seemed happy to me, no matter how big or how many fish he caught. If he got blanked (God forbid!) his day was ruined, and he blamed the water or the fish, or the guide.
Hold the improvement bar up constantly for yourself, not others.
The super cocky client/ guide thing is as old as the smallest rod/smallest fly/biggest fish club.
The real trick with guides, is to find the one that teaches the way you need to learn it.


"Fish for fun, not for spew."