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tjc 01-04-2010 05:52 AM

Knot a problem
 
I had a knot problem when salmon fishing in Alaska. I used the tried and true cinch knot to attach my flies to my 15 lb tippet. After fighting one silver salmon or three arctic char on an 8wt rod I could no longer trust my knot. It would break on the next fish. I had to retie my fly or risk loosing my next fish. The knot would break at the loop through the hooks eye. I was using red fire wire and a scientific Angler and Berkley's Trelene. I there a solution to this problem or just keep retieing the fly?

Frank Whiton 01-04-2010 07:49 AM

Re: Knot a problem
 
Hi tjc,

Where were you fishing in Alaska. Was it a trip or do you live there?

I am a little confused with your comment about "Red Fire Wire." I am not familiar with it. Is it a hook or a leader?

Using the clinch with the heavier tippet you may need to reduce the number of wraps. I suggest you try an Improved Clinch Knot or a Uni Knot. You say it is breaking at the loop and that is not how a knot usually falls. Knots generally fail because they slip. Maybe you have some old Trelene and it was breaking. If you are using a fine wire hook I guess it could cut the tippet at the knot but that would also be unusual. A fine wire hook would not be my choice for Alaska.

Frank

MoscaPescador 01-04-2010 11:43 AM

Re: Knot a problem
 
Frank had some great advice.

I will add this. If you are using streamers, use Lefty Kreh's Non-Slip Loop Knot. It is a 100% knot if tied properly. It works great with larger diameters of leader material. Also it adds a lot more movement to your fly.

MP

jpbfly 01-04-2010 12:04 PM

Re: Knot a problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoscaPescador (Post 77080)
Frank had some great advice.

I will add this. If you are using streamers, use Lefty Kreh's Non-Slip Loop Knot. It is a 100% knot if tied properly. It works great with larger diameters of leader material. Also it adds a lot more movement to your fly.

MP

Great advice from Frank and MP,I used the Non Slip loop Knot when I fished for pike...it's an excellent one;)

Bigfly 01-04-2010 01:18 PM

Re: Knot a problem
 
For what it's worth, I retie after every big fish on. I've found over time, this is how Walter gets away. A small nick goes a long way. Fresh leader every year is a good idea too. If you combine flouro and mono, more wraps are needed, flouro can cut mono it seems. I prefer straight flouro to avoid issues.

tjc 01-04-2010 02:56 PM

Re: Knot a problem
 
Sorry, I mean't Berkley's fireline. Berkley FireLine - Crystal
Price Range:
$14.95 - $159.95
I traveled from WV to Dulles to Dallas Fortworth to Anchorage to King Salmon to Pilot point and bush planed it in to The Dog Salmon River Camp. It's near Ugashic Bay on the Penninsula. I live in West Virginia. I had a wonderful experience.
I will try the improved cinch knot.

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------

Ugashik Bay on the Alaskan Penninsula. Dog Salmon River Camp near the Glacier. Aboundant Silver Salmon and Artic Char ( Dolly Madison ) and regular Char

wjc 01-04-2010 07:36 PM

Re: Knot a problem
 
The knots I use most frequently are the palomar, and the uni with an extra pass of the line taken through the eye.

The breaking strength of both is excellent, and both can be cinched up tight so that the knot does not slide on the hook eye. Both are also nice knots for not hooking weeds, and both work well with fluoro.

Incidentally, several, if not most, of the videos showing the palomar are wrong. Some show the loop that the fly is passed through left behind the hook eye. It should be passed over the hook eye so it cinches up the knot.


For flies that I want to wiggle I will generally use the Kreh loop unless I am using a heavy bite tippet or "shocker", which you probably don't care about, but it is below if anyone is interested.

If the shocker is 80 or 100lbs, I will just tie an overhand knot 3" up the line, snug it, pass the end through the hook eye then through the overhand, run the overhand to the hook eye, tighten by hand, tie another overhand over the standing line then lube, put the hook around something solid (deck cleat or the like) and cinch down with pliers.

Cheers,
Jim

tjc 01-05-2010 04:24 AM

Re: Knot a problem
 
Great advice Jim, thanks

HuronRiverDan 01-05-2010 09:13 AM

Re: Knot a problem
 
MP, thanks for the link to Lefty's knot...

Dan

Frank Whiton 01-05-2010 09:59 AM

Re: Knot a problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tjc (Post 77052)
After fighting one silver salmon or three arctic char on an 8wt rod I could no longer trust my knot. It would break on the next fish. I had to retie my fly or risk loosing my next fish. The knot would break at the loop through the hooks eye.

Hi tjc,

You may be expecting too much from any knot. One Silver Salmon and three Char is quite a bit of fishing without retying, especially with a Clinch Knot. The Char in that area get to good size and the Silvers can be huge. I think I would be checking that knot after every Salmon and making sure it is still tight and not beat up. I would be retying every once in a while just to be sure. It is true that fishing there is not like fishing the lower 48. Down here you might only get one or two chances at a Salmon and in that case I would retie after every Salmon. In Alaska if you break off there is always another Salmon so retying is not as big of a deal.

Frank


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