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Old 11-02-2011, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjoni View Post
I rarely use euronypmhs.When I do Czech style I almost always use beadheads

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

Couple days ago till I was waiting trout to start rising I fished using czech style ,and this are flies...heaviest I had in my box that was not too big for current conditions ...

Click the image to open in full size.

To get flies to sink, you can:

1. Add weight - beads or lead wire/tape on the hook shank.

2. Lessen the drag coefficient of the fly, eg, thinner with less projections and fur.

3. Use thinner leader.

4. Use lead/tungsten split shot or putty.

I use a combination of the above methods.

When fishing heavily fished waters, I believe that the fish see bead heads all the time whether with indicators or Czech style nymphing. They are the dominant fly. I believe some of the fish avoid them. So I prefer to incorporate the lead into the fly using lead tape to keep a slim nymph profile. Almost every stream will have caddis larva and these thin flies are good caddis imitators.

These flies are not head heavy as bead heads are and they ride more level in the flow. So I think their appearance is more natural. Maybe it matters not but in heavily fished rivers, a little different fly and a different presentation helps.


Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.


The images above are off the web and I tie my flies thinner with the shell back ribbed with mono, like the method below. You can add a hot spot at the thorax as in the second method.

Tying nymphs in the Czech style - Get down with it! - Global FlyFisher

Czech Nymphs in 10 Easy Steps by Jindra Lacko | | Hatches Fly Tying Magazine
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

Whether a fly is fished in fast water, or slower determines the weight used.
As madjoni showed, different styles too..
We use more weight because of our flows (the bottom rollers come in several sizes and colors, but no bling/bead). Natural as posible is best here.
The green roller looks like a fat caddis larva. The sherbert maybe an egg?
Several of the guides in the area have been fooling with the 10+ greys in a 4wt as well..fun, I just like a bit more lever (5wt), in case Walter shows up.


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Last edited by Bigfly; 11-02-2011 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

It's funny- back in the early nineties my friends and I would fish a couple fast deep rivers. The traditional nymph/indicator rigs lacked the weight needed to get the fly down and as the water was both deep and fast the placement of the indicator was super high- so high that you might as well use the end of the flyline....

It was at this time that I had a 10ft Sage RPL 5 wt made for nymphing and swinging flies on the White in Arkansas and I realized what a great tool this rod was for nymphing the fast waters of the Eleven Point and North Fork of the White. My friends of whom had similar rods figured out on our own that if we ditched the bobbers and used a long leader with a **** load of lead and a heavy weighted stonefly nymph we could "feel" the fly ticking the bottom and in time we could easily detect a strike. To say the least, many many fish were caught.

That doesn't change on thing though, this is a chuck and duck method of fly fishing and while it was effective it is hardly a graceful method.

These days because of the european influence we call this by a cool sounding name and shoot, companies like Sage are branding rods as "Euro" nymph rods. Im not trying to say that we have been there and done that but in a way I guess I am. In any case I can still fish this way, I just choose not to, its just not that fun.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

So what I'm missing is the difference between "euro" and just plain old tight line nymphing?
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

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So what I'm missing is the difference between "euro" and just plain old tight line nymphing?
I tight line and high stick with and without indicators. But, this weekend I did what I had read and pulled the line ahead of the flies.. "DREDGING" When it all worked, I think that was the point I didn't feel like I liked it. It did get me fish and basically they hooked themselves.

I used zebra's midges, bead head hairs ear and a heavy bottom roller like the ones show by Silver. (I got my from Cabela's)

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Old 11-03-2011, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

I always thought it was more of a sales pitch type of thing. But then again these Euro methods were designed around competition fishing, weren't they? I also tend to think alot people are over-weighting their flies, I see it alot where I fish. Either the fly is heavy enough to be cast with a baitcasting reel or theres enough lead on their leader to to load a .357 that right there will eliminate most of the feel or sensitivity. Its a fine balance of weight and casting distance relative to the flow and depth. When its in balance it shouldn't feel like dredging. That being said its not my favorite way to fish but whatelse is there to do when the hatches have all wrapped up and the midges aren't drawing much attention. To me its more fun trying to get it all in balance than just tying on a heavy bead head, shot and starring at a pink bobber.
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

I have been using Czech nymphing as a complementary skill, as Silver Creek mentioned, when nothing else works or when I see a situation where the skill is effective, namely fast and deep pools.
Speaking of rod, I have been using 4wt 10 foot rod as my go to rod, and am thinking of getting a 4 wt 11 foot, but considering the heavier weight of the rod and extra one foot, I am not sure whether I should get it.

Coming back to the 10 foot 4 wt rod, it has been so versatile in that I can throw dry flies, nymph rigs, and streamers.

Silvercreek, you seem to be well versed in this method, have you ever any experience with a 11 foot rod? It seems to me that the rod can be effective in a big river, but can not be as all around as 4 wt 10 foot.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

I've never used an 11 foot rod.

Improved construction methods now allow light rods of this length. So I think they would offer an advantage especially in the longer French and Spanish techniques of longer casts and more line to hold off of the water.

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by wt bash View Post
I always thought it was more of a sales pitch type of thing. But then again these Euro methods were designed around competition fishing, weren't they?
Actually you have it backwards.

The fly fishing regulations in Europe do not allow any float type indicators or weight like split shot attached to the line or leader. It is the fishing regulations that drive the competition rules and not vice versa.

So the regulations forced adding weight to the fly and not to the leader. That is why bead head flies were first used in Europe and not in the USA. Every wonder why that is so - the regulations made it so.

This is why integrated in-line coiled or colored mono indicators were developed to detect subtle movements of the leader.

Secondly some countries like Germany, Switzerland outlaw C&R. Even in countires that allow C&R, the practice is to keep and kill. So this means much fewer fish in the rivers and this means way tougher fishing. Plus you have to pay to fish in many places. You pay for a beat. So methods are developed to make sure every fish in that beat sees the fly and is caught.

Switzerland to ban catch and release fishing (Live bait and barbed hooks also banned )

Catch and Release in Germany - Fishing Forums from Anglers' Net

Suppose you recreationally have to fish under these rules. Would it make you a more effective fly fisher? That is why the Europeans dominate international competitions. The technique took off with Vladi Trzebunia of the Polish team.

The modern euronymphing technique directly resulted from Vladi Trzebunia, who won the 1989 World Fly Fishing Championship by the greatest point margin ever. His personal score was higher than the total score of the next three teams. He revolutionized European nymphing and in the last few years this method has spread to the USA. Anyone who uses the various new techniques of euronymphing has benefited. I use some of these direct line nymphing techniques and they have made me reconsider how to nymph in varying circumstances.

To answer another question, the styles of Euronymphing are not the same as high sticking or other forms of non indicator nymphing developed in the USA. The flies are different, the leader design is different, the rods used are different, the strike detection methods are more refined.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wt bash View Post
I always thought it was more of a sales pitch type of thing. But then again these Euro methods were designed around competition fishing, weren't they? I also tend to think alot people are over-weighting their flies, I see it alot where I fish. Either the fly is heavy enough to be cast with a baitcasting reel or theres enough lead on their leader to to load a .357 that right there will eliminate most of the feel or sensitivity. Its a fine balance of weight and casting distance relative to the flow and depth. When its in balance it shouldn't feel like dredging. That being said its not my favorite way to fish but whatelse is there to do when the hatches have all wrapped up and the midges aren't drawing much attention. To me its more fun trying to get it all in balance than just tying on a heavy bead head, shot and starring at a pink bobber.
haha interesting post...
I can only say that there is no such thing as over weighted nymph ,for me and my rivers nymph cant be too heavy
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

I get where your coming from Madjoni every watershed is different so different methods apply.
Silver Creek, interesting stuff. I can see the how and why a little clearer now. Not to be cross but it still sounds like a more complicated form of tight line nymphing. The only difference I see is an extra fly or two and a specialized leader coupled with a longer rod. The basic principals still apply, or am I still off? I'm not trying to be a jerk, if it seems that way I'm just trying to understand the method a little better.
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