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Old 11-03-2011, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

wtb, given your quote, I'd think the pretty colors alone would work for you....
You are about right, it does look similar to high sticking.
There are enough differences though, to be different.
Look around for the dvd that Vladi did with Jack Dennis.
That should help a little.

Jim
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

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Originally Posted by wt bash View Post
I get where your coming from Madjoni every watershed is different so different methods apply.
Silver Creek, interesting stuff. I can see the how and why a little clearer now. Not to be cross but it still sounds like a more complicated form of tight line nymphing. The only difference I see is an extra fly or two and a specialized leader coupled with a longer rod. The basic principals still apply, or am I still off? I'm not trying to be a jerk, if it seems that way I'm just trying to understand the method a little better.
Hi ,you are not off!
This style is still fly fishing even if it doesnt look like one It looks more like throwing little stones in water
Just wanted to loose this thread a bit because I saw many times how threads like this gets ugly ....
Czech style is deadly,specially for faster and water with some color in it...
But must say something more,I use it from time to time and that doesnt mean that I like it...Dry flyfishing rules!
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

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Originally Posted by madjoni View Post
Dry flyfishing rules!
Amen to that!

Haha Bigfly I tried the pretty colors but they sing too loud Thanks for that I'll check out the Dvd, well ok I'll look for clips on utube.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

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Originally Posted by wt bash View Post
Silver Creek, interesting stuff. I can see the how and why a little clearer now. Not to be cross but it still sounds like a more complicated form of tight line nymphing. The only difference I see is an extra fly or two and a specialized leader coupled with a longer rod. The basic principals still apply, or am I still off? I'm not trying to be a jerk, if it seems that way I'm just trying to understand the method a little better.
I don't think you are jerk nor being argumentative. However, I don't think you have sufficiently defined what tight line nymphing means in the vernacular of nymphing.

You refer to tight line nymphing. It would be helpful to me and to you if you described what you mean by that. Allow me to help you define it by asking you what you mean by "tight line nymphing"

Specifically, what water types are fished? Are there any limits on the water depth that can be fished? Are the flies moved faster, slower, or at the speed of the drift? Are the flies held back or are the "dragged" downstream? Is the line at a lateral angle to the rod tip, angled toward or away from the bank or directly above where the line enters the water? Are there design limits to the flies that can be used or can any fly be used? Does the leader have split shot or added weight? How is the leader designed? Does the leader have an in-line indicator of any type? Where and how far is are the flies cast? At what angle? Is there a "pre-strike" or induced take incorporated into the method? Where do you move to next after fishing a section? How is the fly rod held during the drift - mid, low or high? What is rod angle to the water during the fly - level, up or down?

Is there another description you can give to what you call tight line nymphing - specifically, is it high sticking? Is it the Brooks method? Exactly what is it?

Unless you can answer the above questions for me, and you can precisely define what you think tight line nymphing is, other than the line is tight; you cannot understand the many differences between what you have termed tight line nymphing and what Czech nymphing and how the other forms of Euronymphing differ from each other. It is not a matter of intelligence, but knowledge gained by reading and doing.

If I were to make an analogy to what you are saying - I could call Czech nymphing fly fishing and say there is no difference between it and streamer or dry fly fishing. They are all done with a fly rod and a fly so they must be the same. That is true, but obviously, it does not make them the same. There is a rule of logic that says words that share a common feature(s) need not be identical.

It goes to how specific you want to define a term. I believe there are significant differences between the French and Czech methods, never mind what you term tight line nymphing and Czech nymphing, which I believe have greater differences.

We have discussions about what strike indicators are are the best, for gosh sakes, and what is the best fly line for a particular rod. Or the best leader design. If you believe fly line designs differ, or that a sparkle dun is more effective than a comparadun; they are much closer to each other than what I think you mean by tight line nymphing and the Euronymphing methods.

This is not just theoretical gibberish. There is a great value to being specific. If I caught fish on a trip and you did not, and you asked me what I used, and I said a fly; would that help you? What if I said it was a nymph, how much help would that be? What if I told you the name, but not the size? What if I also told you the size, but not the color? What if I told you also told you the color, but not how it was rigged? What if I told you I was Czech nymphing, but you did not know what that meant?

Czech, Spanish and French nymphing refer to specific methods of fishing; and by their specificity, they tell a person that understands the term exactly how the flies are fished, the type of leader, how to cast, how to retrieve, and even the water type that was fished etc, etc; all because of the specificity of the term. Tight line nymphing does not, and cannot ever do that.

The concept of "tight line nymphing" was well known before Vladi Trzebunia, the originator of Polish Nymphing, personally outscored the next three teams combined, proving that this type of nymphing is different than anything that preceded it. No further "proof" is needed. This is like an unheard of baseball player hitting more home runs than the next three entire teams. It simply cannot be a random occurrence but a new way to present the fly to a fish.

The fact that the other European teams adopted this method and expanded it shows that it is a differs from what came before.

Rather that go on, I suggest you go to the best Euronymphing site, Trout Predator and read these introductory threads:

European or Czech Nymphing Introduction

Czech or Polish Nymphing

Loren Williams, a member of the USA Fly Fishing Team chimes in on pg 5 and begins taking questions:

Czech or Polish Nymphing
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Last edited by silver creek; 11-04-2011 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

This is a technique that I really haven't tried yet, so there was a lot of good info in this thread for me. I am a little confused as to how this works so effectively (I am assuming that this style employs a lot of fishing in close quarters) with trout being so spooky. Is it the current that keeps them from detecting your presence?
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

When I say tight line fishing I simply cast up above where I think a trout lie is, with a nymph weighted relative to the depth and flow and keep the line tight enough to feel any strikes but not so tight that I'm pulling the flies through. I keep the rod fairly high with a slight angle to keep the tip up and line off the water. I'll follow the fly through the drift till its paralell to me and then let it swing out cause theres usually some type of softhackle involved. Its how I'll fish a nymph in any water type, the nymphs and weight might change but the same presentation is used. If I were in a heavy riffle run then a heavy caddis larvae followed by a green soft hackle, if its a slower pool I might tie on a PT followed by a hare's ear softhackle, again weighted accordingly and cast far enough up so I feel its getting into the "zone" of where I think a fish might be. Thanks for those links. I understand it alot more, still I'm sticking to my "method" its simple effective and I don't need to have any specialized gear. I don't pay much attention to all the names of "methods" and all that. Getting mired by methodology can lead to dogmatic thinking and I'd rather keep it as simple as I can. I catch enough and enjoy my time on the water. I did learn a lot from this thread and hope through my constant questioning other did as well, thanks for taking the time to explain it all.
Cheers!
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

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Originally Posted by wt bash View Post
When I say tight line fishing I simply cast up above where I think a trout lie is, with a nymph weighted relative to the depth and flow and keep the line tight enough to feel any strikes but not so tight that I'm pulling the flies through. I keep the rod fairly high with a slight angle to keep the tip up and line off the water. I'll follow the fly through the drift till its paralell to me and then let it swing out cause theres usually some type of softhackle involved. Its how I'll fish a nymph in any water type, the nymphs and weight might change but the same presentation is used. If I were in a heavy riffle run then a heavy caddis larvae followed by a green soft hackle, if its a slower pool I might tie on a PT followed by a hare's ear softhackle, again weighted accordingly and cast far enough up so I feel its getting into the "zone" of where I think a fish might be. Thanks for those links. I understand it alot more, still I'm sticking to my "method" its simple effective and I don't need to have any specialized gear. I don't pay much attention to all the names of "methods" and all that. Getting mired by methodology can lead to dogmatic thinking and I'd rather keep it as simple as I can. I catch enough and enjoy my time on the water. I did learn a lot from this thread and hope through my constant questioning other did as well, thanks for taking the time to explain it all.
Cheers!
Thanks for the reply. Here are the differences between what you call tight line nymphing vs Polish/Czech nymphing.

Polish/Czech is designed for a certain water type, faster water and riffles that are about knee deep is best. You are likely fishing deeper water and at greater distances. Since you are casting further, fly placement is is less accurate and less methodical.

Polish and Czech nymphing uses a shorter more accurate casts, and shorter drifts. The rod leads the flies so this is a key difference. The rod is in a lower position so the leader is tighter and a higher proportion of the strikes are detected.

The leader and flies do not drift downstream further than the angler's position. There is no Leisering lift or swing as you do. There is a short pre-strike whenever the flies are felt to be where a trout is and at the end of the drift, EVEN IF there is no strike felt - hence the term pre-strike. This is to catch fish that take the fly but spit it out without detection. If there is no fish is on, the drift is continued.

Once the drift is fished, one step forward is taken and the next short section fished. Once the applicable water is fished, a step down is taken and the next strip of water is fished.

The method is designed to present the fly to every fish and to catch every catchable fish in the water that is fished. That is why Vladi our fished the next three teams. His method does three things. First, after he fishes a beat, there are few fish left for the next competitor.

Secondly, when he follows a competitor who uses a less systematic way to cover the water, his method is more likely to catch missed fish than a competitor that uses a less systematic method.

Thirdly, the water type that is fished holds the most fish in a river. So he catches more fish, if not the largest fish.

Fourthly, the water type allows you to get closer to the fish. Closer means better accuracy and improved strike detection.

If I may make an observation in all sincerity and with respect to you. I suggest that by insisting that you will "stick" to your method and not consider trying Polish/Czech nymphing with the equipment you currently own, fulfills the definition being "dogmatic".

Being dogmatic is believing something without evidence. I submit that there is plenty of evidence that Polish/Czech nymphing is more effective in the riffles than what you are doing. So what I am stating is actually the antithesis of dogma.

May I be so bold as to suggest that being open to the possibility that there are better methods is less dogmatic and more flexible. You need not buy into the whole enchilada, but consider that adopting some of the principles of Czech/Polish nymphing can make you a more versatile angler and less dogmatic in your own beliefs.

I may be wrong but the sense I get by your statement that, "I catch enough and enjoy my time on the water," that trying a new method may make you less comfortable and your time less enjoyable. That may indeed be true. Learning a new technique can be challenging. Let me say that you did it once when you took up fly fishing. Can you say that learning a new method will not do the same and give you skills that you currently do not have?

Fish & Fly - Terry Lawton - Czech Nymphing Primer

All my best to you,
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

Apples and Oranges. I have no real methodology aside from the K.I.S.S. aproach, I'm also not out to catch every possible fish I can, I'm not competing. I'm open to new ideas but I'm not going to complicte something simple. It's cool though you obviously dig the more technical approach, hey whatever grabs your goose, I dig keeping it all as simple as I can. For me, I end up learning more, to each their own.
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

I like fishing with Czech flies, but I do not use the straight mono setup that is traditional. I love how the flies present deep and stay down.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Czech style nymphing.. What is your experience?

Silver explained it well in his last post. I actually was able to move up about 15 Feet get out of the stream and go back to my starting position and did it all over again.

I think somewhere in this thread I had an enlightened moment. Early on I mentioned what a pro bass angler and how they will catch a fish quickly get the fish in the boat and fish again. The Czech technique is used for competition and that is probably why I really didn't like it.

That being said, I know I will use it now that I finally feel I can make it work. However, I think I will resort to it after I have tried other methods first. If I don't move on I will give it a try.

I also agree with Silver a bunch here on the process of learning. I don't like to streamer fish at all with only one streamer but I do love to tie on tandems and even use then in a strait downstream float/bounce with great sucess. If I wouldn't have learned that from another mentor on stream many a big brown wouldn't have been caught by me.

Thanks for all the input

CritterGetter

PS... and maybe one of these day's I can fish alongside of Silver Creek and learn a trick or two.. at least have a beer or two.
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