Streamers and Leaders questions.

swidaho

Active member
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
Location
Idaho
The more I read and see about streamers the more I want to fish with them. I'll be fishing the Boise river mainly and some trips to Cascade and McCall areas as well. This will be for Trout. My rod is a 9 foot 5 w (heavy fast action.) The line is RIO WF5F and Cutthroat leaders. I do have dry fly and nymph leaders.

Leaders, will this work or should I invest in others?

Streamers, I have a few that is weighted and no weight. What is your experience with them and different leaders?

What is the simple way to control depth of the different combination that I have or should add?

Thank you for your help!
 

williamhj

Well-known member
Messages
3,363
Reaction score
79
Location
Denver CO
For leader - Cutthroat sells a streamer leader that I like. You can also use a length of straight mono. Since you don't need a very delicate presentation with streamers (nor do you need as long a leader) you could use the leaders you have but I'd save them for their intended purpose and use something better able to turn over larger/heavier flies.

Having weighted and unweighted is great. Lets you fish different depths and water speeds. You can add a sink tip to help get the flies under the surface. That's great for unweighted flies or fishing deeper water.

Streamer fishing is an absolute blast.
 

dwizum

Well-known member
Messages
425
Reaction score
19
Location
Upstate NY
I really like streamer fishing, I find it has more of an aspect of creativity and involvement compared to other styles of fly fishing. With a dry or nymph, there's pretty much one game - get a drag-free drift. With streamers, you can drift them, swing them, strip them fast, strip them slow, mix fast and slow strips with pauses, let them sink or keep them near the surface, or all of the above mixed together on one cast.

I end up with a variety of leaders depending on the conditions. Sometimes I will put a streamer on a dry fly or nymph leader if I'm being lazy and just want to try it out without swapping leaders. I do end up using the two-color nymph leader from cutthroat pretty often for streamers, it works fine since the bottom half is designed to sink. The only times when these specific leaders do poorly is if you're trying to cast a pretty big fly (they don't turn big flies over well) or if you need to sink the fly really fast.

For "actual" streamer fishing I will usually use a sinking polyleader with a short piece of tippet. I have 5' and 10' sinking polyleaders, in whichever the fastest sink rate is. I switch between the two lengths depending on how much sink I want. I consider these more an extension of the fly line, turning a floating line into a sink tip line, rather than a "leader" in the conventional sense. Otherwise, if I don't feel like I need to sink the fly fast, I just use two feet or so of heavy tippet tied right to the fly line.

I like to fish flies that sink well on their own. I use a lot of clouser minnows and other bucktail patterns, tied pretty sparse. They cast and sink well, and catch fish. Almost all of my streamers are weighted, I find that I need the weight in the smaller, faster creeks I fish to get the fly down. The only times I use unweighted streamers tend to be in shallower still water when I want to do a slow retrieve.
 

winstonwt

Well-known member
Messages
559
Reaction score
33
Location
buena vista,colorado
I'm headed out this morning to fish streamers.I use a 6wt max fast rod,sink tip line with 15-20 pound maxima chameleon 18 inches long,followed by a tippet of 6-10 pound maxima ultragreen 24 inches long.
 

huntschool

Well-known member
Messages
1,170
Reaction score
125
Location
Southernmost Illinois
One thing you might want to try is a streamer leader with a tiny swivel on the end. You tie your tippet of choice onto that swivel and fish it as you would. The swivel keeps the tippet from twisting as some are want to do with various streamers.

I am pretty sure Cutthroat sells some with the swivel built in.

As to the rest of it, I agree with all the above posters. I fish streamers on rods from 4wt and up. It’s a blast and frankly forgiving of casting mistakes unlike some dry fly presentations...... LOL

You should see some of the stuff (streamers) that folks are throwing for the big brown trout in the White River in AR. They look like musky baits. However, as the old adage says.... Big bait for big fish......

Just a thought
 

ia_trouter

Senior Member
Messages
8,453
Reaction score
97
Location
Eastern Iowa, Southern Driftless
Streamers are fun. A 5WT would be regarded as a light streamer rod. You'll have to experiment to figure out how much weight you can get away with. I did so while prepping for Alaska with a 5-6 & 8WT. You'll know when it's just too much for the rod or fly line. I found a sinktip line the easiest to cast, and a floating line with a weighted leader far easier to adjust for depth on the water. Don't get overly concerned with your casting loops opening up some, especially until you get used to it.
 

bigjim5589

Well-known member
Messages
4,518
Reaction score
1,562
Location
Manning, S. C. (formerly MD)
I tie & use a lot of streamer flies, primarily for bass & tidalwater species, but have used them for trout as well. Last trout I caught was on a tiny Clouser Minnow with pink bead chain eyes ( Arctic Fox fur & Polar Flash on a size 8 hook) that I had actually tied with Crappies & other panfish in mind. I generally add some weight to most streamers, but not always. As has been said, both weighted & unweighted can be useful for varying depths & currents. The trick if you wish to call it that, is to cast in such a manner to allow the fly to get to the desired depth. In moving water that often means well up & across so the fly moves down stream to where you want the fly to end up, which should be close to where the fish should be.
In still water or lesser current, your cast may be near where the fish should be or even well past to allow a retrieve that will place the fly in the strike zone.

These others have given you excellent advice. It's been my experience that the species being targeted really doesn't matter when fishing streamers. Most streamers will mimic smaller fish, and big fish eat little fish. However, they can also imitate other things, such as leches or crayfish. There's really no limit to what a streamer might imitate as prey that will be found under water.

IMO, you're rod may be a bit on the lighter side, but doesn't mean can't be effective provided you stay within the limits of the rod. I've cast small streamers on a 3 & a 4 wt many times.

I can't comment of the Cutthroat leaders as I've never used them. But, I will agree that streamer leaders do not need to be extremely long such as you may use with dry flies. I generally go with about the rod length with floating lines, but will shorten as I go to more heavily weighted flies. With an 8 1/2' to 9' rod my shorter leaders will be 6 1/2' to 7' with a floating line. However, with a full sinking line, regardless of the sink rate, I may go to even shorter leader/tippet combinations , even as short as 3', which is often a single section of line serving as both leader & tippet. I have a couple of sinking lines in various sink rates, and use them in waters with depths of at least 10', or where there is strong & fast currents. (Tidal currents most often for me.) Even in waters of 5', if the current is strong, it's difficult to get a fly deep enough sometimes with the weight in the fly alone. Split shot can be added, but I hate using them & feel I get better control with the sinking lines.

The idea of short leaders with sinking lines is the line gets the fly down, and if the leader is too long, the line will be at the desired depth, but the fly will still be well above that depth, so it's necessary to shorten the leader/tippet combination.

For most trout fishing situations, you should be good with what you have as long as you stay within the limitations of the gear you're using. In other words, don't expect to be casting most 8" streamers, particularly if heavily weighted with that 5 wt. :rolleyes:

Please keep us informed of your progress, success & failures. It's a learning process & I've said many times that our failures usually teach us much more than our successes. ;)

Sorry for such a long post, but hope it helps. :D
 

swidaho

Active member
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
Location
Idaho
Thank you for the input everyone! I'm going to try and get a few wet this week. If not I have some vacation time coming up soon :frogdance I will have time to play then.
 
R

risering50

Guest
Use a rod that will be used and abused for a darn god reason. Keep the rod tip in the water while workin' the streamer. Your brain should be thinkin' about what the streamer is doin,' and how it looks to the fish.

You will figure out what length of leader for the streamers your fishing, and the water your in.

The strikes will hook you as much as the fish. When slinging weighted streams know that you WILL hit yourself in the shoulders, and head sooner or later...

Down & Across is a wonderful thing.

---------- Post added at 07:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 AM ----------

darn good, not darn god
 

Rip Tide

Well-known member
Messages
11,146
Reaction score
3,505
Location
quiet corner, ct
The single most important advantage that fly fishing has over other "conventional" fishing methods is the ability to "mend".
And when it comes to streamer fishing in current, mending is especially important.
Not only does mending allow your streamer to sink in place without the aid of sinking lines or speciality leaders, but with mending you can manipulate your streamer in ways that are impossible with spin fishing.

With a proper mending technique, you will be able to make the fly swim away from you by mending the line up and beyond where the fly lands
You will be able to have your fly hold in place, stationary in the current, by stacking mends above it's position.
You will be able to cast above a deep holding lie and allow the fly to sink freely.
You'll be able to control the depth it fishes with your mends, turn the fly, then swim it broadside through the lie deeply by mending downstream, tightening and slipping line into the drift.
The presentation possibilities are endless, and you don't need speciality leaders or borrowed hardware rigging to do it.
Just solid fly fishing fundamentals
 

dwizum

Well-known member
Messages
425
Reaction score
19
Location
Upstate NY
One thing you might want to try is a streamer leader with a tiny swivel on the end.
Yes that's a great point, all of my sinking polyleaders have swivels for tippet attachment. When I go with straight tippet to the fly line, I just use a loop to loop.

Streamers are fun. A 5WT would be regarded as a light streamer rod.
I think that's true in the conventional sense, but everything can scale. When most people think "streamers" they think "big" which is the norm, and definitely works, but there's no reason why you can't swing smaller streamers on smaller rods. Or even medium-ish streamers on small rods if you don't mind it being a big awkward. A few weeks ago I finished building a 6'6" 2 weight rod, and the first fish I caught on it was a nice 16-18" brown, while swinging a small (size 6 I think) weighted bucktail streamer. The streamer (and fish!) were both a lot for the rod to handle but it did work.

As has been said, both weighted & unweighted can be useful for varying depths & currents. The trick if you wish to call it that, is to cast in such a manner to allow the fly to get to the desired depth. In moving water that often means well up & across so the fly moves down stream to where you want the fly to end up, which should be close to where the fish should be.

...

The idea of short leaders with sinking lines is the line gets the fly down, and if the leader is too long, the line will be at the desired depth, but the fly will still be well above that depth, so it's necessary to shorten the leader/tippet combination.
I think you raise some interesting points regarding depth control. The good news is, there's lots of options. The bad news is, there's lots of options. :D I could see it being confusing to someone just getting interested in streamers. You want a fly to get to a certain depth, and you can either change the weight on the fly, add/remove split shot on the leader, change to a faster or slower sinking leader, change to a faster or slower sinking fly line, change to a longer or shorter leader, change to a longer or shorter tippet, or change your casting and mending approach. IMHO, the trick is to just find a few of those options you understand and stick with them.

Basically, I approach it by adding/removing weight somewhere in the system (fly, leader, line) to get roughly enough sink rate for the water you're fishing. Then, change the cast, mend, and retrieve to place the fly exactly where you want it with the action, or lack thereof, that you want.
 

fyshstykr

Well-known member
Messages
5,286
Reaction score
84
Location
Gone, gone
My leader is generally a 3'-5' level piece of 0X or 1X. You mentioned you have a WF floating line, this should work fine for smaller to medium unweighted streamers, but once you move up to "meat" I'd seriously consider moving towards a fly line designed with only streamers in mind such as the RIO 'Clouser'. These lines have the proper taper and mass for turning over "meat" and heavier flies.
 
Last edited:

cab

Well-known member
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
23
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
At the risk of repeating others, leader and tippet are less important with streamers than nymphs and dries. Your'e tying on a large fly, (all streamers are large in comparison) so don't be afraid to use large tippet, and a large leader as well.

A 5wt. rod will chuck meat, be ready for a klunky cast. Light and elegant, NOT! Don't be afraid of it, mind your P's & Q's, and you'll be OK.

The most surprising thing for me over the last couple of years has been how deep I don't need to go to catch fish. Stripping line 2 or 3 feet, pretty quick, big brown rockets from the depths to CHOMP on my streamer is exiting, to put it mildly.

Learn to cast across, or down-and-across and swim the fly to where you think the fish are. Maybe strip back, cast again. Cast and strip gets tiring quick! I try to fish steamers like I used to work Panther Martins. Caught quite a few on the swing, covering water.

HTH,
CAB
 

factor

Well-known member
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern Maine
I do a lot of streamer fishing up here in Maine for Landlocked Salmon- as well as Brook Trout. My main streamer rig for the river (which sees a pile of salmon each year) is pretty simple. For streamers, you really don't need anything fancy. I typically start out with one section of 1X or 2X Floro or Mono around 6 feet long. You can trim this back as you need to...I generally replace it when it gets in the 3-4 foot range. For pond fishing Brook Trout, I make it one section of 3X Floro.
 

swidaho

Active member
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
Location
Idaho
Thank you all for the great feedback. When using swivels what size are you using? With work having a lot going on, I'm not going to have time to play before vacation. I will pick up some different tippet and leaders and see what happens.
 

schrederman

Active member
Messages
35
Reaction score
1
Carolina rig... like in worming for bass... Actually yes... sort of. I use 7' 5x leader with a tippet ring. I put a split shot above the tippet ring and use a 2' 5x tippet with an un-weighted streamer on it. I can add another split shot if needed due to depth or current. However, after reading the experiences of others, I'll probably go to the straight monofilament with a small swivel. I'll add shot above the swivel if needed.

I haven't been fly-fishing long and really appreciate the input..... Thanks everyone!
 

bigjim5589

Well-known member
Messages
4,518
Reaction score
1,562
Location
Manning, S. C. (formerly MD)
schrederman, if you understand the basic concept of a Carolina rig, then you understand the idea of sinking fly lines & unweighted flies. There's various ways as has been indicated in this thread to accomplish getting the fly to the proper depth. That's what it's all about no matter how we each do it.

Even floating flies could be used at times with a full sinking line or a sink tip. Wjc & I was just discussing that in the following thread. If you've ever heard of guys Carolina rigging crankbaits, then basically the same idea.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-lines/365248-bass-fly-line-help-2.html#post775659
 
Top