The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > Coldwater Fly Fishing

Coldwater Fly Fishing Trout, Salmon, Steelhead, etc...

Like Tree14Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2015, 12:00 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 19
joefbtg28 is on a distinguished road
Default Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Ok, so I feel like there has to be a solution for this, but couldn't find much searching.

Problem:
I have been fishing a lot of nymph rigs with indicators due to the depth adjust-ability, and this has helped me be more successful on more occasions. The creeks I fish go from shallow runs to medium depth pools and back. I feel if I don't have the nymphs bouncing on the bottom, I don't get any strikes. Now that fish are looking up more, and want to eat big grasshoppers and ants, I would like to fish more dry dropper rigs. However, I feel I haven't been very successful with the nymphs on these setups because I lack the length adjust-ability for the nymph. The only solutions I found online was a you tube video, and you had to do some surgery on your hopper to make the system adjustable.

Anyone have a nifty trick to make an adjustable dry dropper setup?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2015, 12:17 PM
mickalo's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Orange City, Iowa
Posts: 44
mickalo is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Here's a video you may find interesting I've used myself once you get the hang of it it's really handy called a "Hop-icator "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkrnqcxNSMw

Mike
__________________
"The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of that which is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope" -John Buchan
--------------------------------------------------
Thunder Rain Internet Publishing
Custom Programming & Web Hosting Services
http://www.thunder-rain.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2015, 02:18 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,046
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by joefbtg28 View Post
Ok, so I feel like there has to be a solution for this, but couldn't find much searching.

Problem:
I have been fishing a lot of nymph rigs with indicators due to the depth adjust-ability, and this has helped me be more successful on more occasions. The creeks I fish go from shallow runs to medium depth pools and back. I feel if I don't have the nymphs bouncing on the bottom, I don't get any strikes. Now that fish are looking up more, and want to eat big grasshoppers and ants, I would like to fish more dry dropper rigs. However, I feel I haven't been very successful with the nymphs on these setups because I lack the length adjust-ability for the nymph. The only solutions I found online was a you tube video, and you had to do some surgery on your hopper to make the system adjustable.

Anyone have a nifty trick to make an adjustable dry dropper setup?
I think you are misinterpreting why a dry-dropper works,

The dry is NOT a strike indicator in the sense that the nymph has to be on the bottom.

The reason a dry dropper works is that the dropper gives the fish another food item to consider when it notices the dry fly.

Consider that a true indicator is dragging the nymph downstream and it hesitates when the nymph hits bottom. The indicator RARELY has a DRAG FREE DRIFT. What kind of drift you need for a dry fly to work? You want a drag free drift! So if you are using a foam hopper as a true indicator and the nymph is on the bottom, the hopper will be a poor dry fly imitation.

What a dry dropper does is to suspend the nymph or emerger near the surface film so that its effect on the dry is minimal. The DRY is the PRIMARY fly and the DROPPER is the secondary fly. The purpose of the dropper is to increase the odds that a fish will take the one of the two flies. It functions the same as the second nymph on a two nymph rig or the second dry on a double dry rig.

None of the double fly rigs are designed for the second fly to interfere with the success of the primary fly and that is exactly what a nymph bouncing on the bottom does on the dry-dropper system you want to use. When you do use a hopper to bottom bounce a nymph, you will occasionally catch a fish on it but no where near the rate as when you fish the dry as the primary fly and rig it so it drifts drag free.

You fish a dry dropper, the fish are looking up at a hatch or for terrestrials. When you fish with a standard nymph rig but with a hopper as an indicator, you are really primarily nymphing.
k_e_v, wjl, smilingduck and 4 others like this.
__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2015, 04:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 19
joefbtg28 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Yes, the scenario I was thinking of was to be nymphing primarily and just have the hopper or dry as an option as well. If I am understanding correctly you are saying I should just run a double nymph rig in those scenarios if I need the nymphs riding the bottom. Thanks for the input guys.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2015, 07:12 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,046
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

I think when the fish are on the bottom a double nymph rig will catch more fish than a large hopper pattern and a nymph bottom bouncing.

The exception is when you are casting tight to the bank, the water is shallower and the fish tend to reaction strike a hopper pattern before a heavy nymph can even hit bottom.
fredaevans and smilingduck like this.
__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

Last edited by silver creek; 08-05-2015 at 08:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 09:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 146
el jefe has a spectacular aura aboutel jefe has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Interesting discussion, and kudos to the OP and the respondents. I learned a lot reading this.

Threads like this one are why I like this place. It's like hanging around on the back porch of the cabin with your buddies and some beers, talking about the finer points of fly fishing. Be it here in the forum or out on the porch, it makes me a better fisherman.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 10:01 AM
fredaevans's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: White City (tad north of Medford) Oar-E-Gone
Posts: 7,427
fredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond reputefredaevans has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
I think when the fish are on the bottom a double nymph rig will catch more fish than a large hopper pattern and a nymph bottom bouncing.

The exception is when you are casting tight to the bank, the water is shallower and the fish tend to reaction strike a hopper pattern before a heavy nymph can even hit bottom.
Think Summer Run Steelhead done as above.
__________________
When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character is lost, all is lost. - Billy Graham"
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 01:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 370
hokiehunter07 will become famous soon enoughhokiehunter07 will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
I think you are misinterpreting why a dry-dropper works,

The dry is NOT a strike indicator in the sense that the nymph has to be on the bottom.

The reason a dry dropper works is that the dropper gives the fish another food item to consider when it notices the dry fly.

Consider that a true indicator is dragging the nymph downstream and it hesitates when the nymph hits bottom. The indicator RARELY has a DRAG FREE DRIFT. What kind of drift you need for a dry fly to work? You want a drag free drift! So if you are using a foam hopper as a true indicator and the nymph is on the bottom, the hopper will be a poor dry fly imitation.

What a dry dropper does is to suspend the nymph or emerger near the surface film so that its effect on the dry is minimal. The DRY is the PRIMARY fly and the DROPPER is the secondary fly. The purpose of the dropper is to increase the odds that a fish will take the one of the two flies. It functions the same as the second nymph on a two nymph rig or the second dry on a double dry rig.

None of the double fly rigs are designed for the second fly to interfere with the success of the primary fly and that is exactly what a nymph bouncing on the bottom does on the dry-dropper system you want to use. When you do use a hopper to bottom bounce a nymph, you will occasionally catch a fish on it but no where near the rate as when you fish the dry as the primary fly and rig it so it drifts drag free.

You fish a dry dropper, the fish are looking up at a hatch or for terrestrials. When you fish with a standard nymph rig but with a hopper as an indicator, you are really primarily nymphing.
I get what you are saying in a literal sense, but in my much more limited experience than many on here when I fish a dry dropper setup 90% of the strikes come on the dropper. This is especially true in instances where my dropper is a soft hackle or other emerger fly. The dry gets their attention and then they take the dropper.

My favorite dry - dropper is a klink and dink. On my small streams I have the best luck on a rainbow warrior or brassie hanging below a relatively large klink. I tend to get most hits on the dropper and usually only bigger fish hit the klink.

Another dry-dropper setup I use is a crossing upstream cast with a size 12-16 dry with an 18-22 emerger behind. at 30+ feet I can't see my dropper and if the fly has gone under or the water is a little rough I might not see the take. I rely on the relatively large dry to give away the take. I know the chance of the fish taking the dry is low especially when they're feeding on midges, etc. but it gets a look and the emerger seals the deal. In those cases the dry is the fly I have the most control over, but the emerger is my primary fly. This is a deadly setup on smokey mountain tailwaters.

I get that the true purpose of a dry dropper is to fish the dry but I feel you can't exactly think that way with a true nymph. A heavy fly greatly influences the cast, the landing, and the drift of a dry. When fishing a true nymph I think you have to consider the nymph the primary fly and the dry is just icing. That's why when people ask if I like fishing with an indicator my response is, "Yes, but I like a hook in my indicator." I'll almost never fish a true nymph rig as I get too many hits on my indicators that way. I never intend for my dry to have a drag free drift and ultimately I think we're getting into semantics. Maybe we call it something else but ultimately it's a floating fly with a sinking fly behind it.

The point still remains valid that having an easily adjustable dry fly / nymph setup could be another valuable tool in an anglers bag.
markfrid likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 02:49 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,046
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

The original poster said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by joefbtg28 View Post
Problem:
I have been fishing a lot of nymph rigs with indicators due to the depth adjust-ability, and this has helped me be more successful on more occasions. The creeks I fish go from shallow runs to medium depth pools and back. I feel if I don't have the nymphs bouncing on the bottom, I don't get any strikes. Now that fish are looking up more, and want to eat big grasshoppers and ants, I would like to fish more dry dropper rigs. However, I feel I haven't been very successful with the nymphs on these setups because I lack the length adjust-ability for the nymph. The only solutions I found online was a you tube video, and you had to do some surgery on your hopper to make the system adjustable.

Anyone have a nifty trick to make an adjustable dry dropper setup?
I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
I think you are misinterpreting why a dry-dropper works,

The dry is NOT a strike indicator in the sense that the nymph has to be on the bottom.

The reason a dry dropper works is that the dropper gives the fish another food item to consider when it notices the dry fly.

Consider that a true indicator is dragging the nymph downstream and it hesitates when the nymph hits bottom. The indicator RARELY has a DRAG FREE DRIFT. What kind of drift you need for a dry fly to work? You want a drag free drift! So if you are using a foam hopper as a true indicator and the nymph is on the bottom, the hopper will be a poor dry fly imitation.

What a dry dropper does is to suspend the nymph or emerger near the surface film so that its effect on the dry is minimal. The DRY is the PRIMARY fly and the DROPPER is the secondary fly. The purpose of the dropper is to increase the odds that a fish will take the one of the two flies. It functions the same as the second nymph on a two nymph rig or the second dry on a double dry rig.

None of the double fly rigs are designed for the second fly to interfere with the success of the primary fly and that is exactly what a nymph bouncing on the bottom does on the dry-dropper system you want to use. When you do use a hopper to bottom bounce a nymph, you will occasionally catch a fish on it but no where near the rate as when you fish the dry as the primary fly and rig it so it drifts drag free.

You fish a dry dropper, the fish are looking up at a hatch or for terrestrials. When you fish with a standard nymph rig but with a hopper as an indicator, you are really primarily nymphing.
You wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiehunter07 View Post
I get what you are saying in a literal sense, but in my much more limited experience than many on here when I fish a dry dropper setup 90% of the strikes come on the dropper. This is especially true in instances where my dropper is a soft hackle or other emerger fly. The dry gets their attention and then they take the dropper.

My favorite dry - dropper is a klink and dink. On my small streams I have the best luck on a rainbow warrior or brassie hanging below a relatively large klink. I tend to get most hits on the dropper and usually only bigger fish hit the klink.

Another dry-dropper setup I use is a crossing upstream cast with a size 12-16 dry with an 18-22 emerger behind. at 30+ feet I can't see my dropper and if the fly has gone under or the water is a little rough I might not see the take. I rely on the relatively large dry to give away the take. I know the chance of the fish taking the dry is low especially when they're feeding on midges, etc. but it gets a look and the emerger seals the deal. In those cases the dry is the fly I have the most control over, but the emerger is my primary fly. This is a deadly setup on smokey mountain tailwaters.

I get that the true purpose of a dry dropper is to fish the dry but I feel you can't exactly think that way with a true nymph. A heavy fly greatly influences the cast, the landing, and the drift of a dry. When fishing a true nymph I think you have to consider the nymph the primary fly and the dry is just icing. That's why when people ask if I like fishing with an indicator my response is, "Yes, but I like a hook in my indicator." I'll almost never fish a true nymph rig as I get too many hits on my indicators that way. I never intend for my dry to have a drag free drift and ultimately I think we're getting into semantics. Maybe we call it something else but ultimately it's a floating fly with a sinking fly behind it.

The point still remains valid that having an easily adjustable dry fly / nymph setup could be another valuable tool in an anglers bag.
I am not so sure you are at odds with what I wrote.

I replied to the situation where the nymph is bottom bouncing which is what the original poster was addressing. You wrote that you get most of your strikes on the dropper when it an emerger or soft hackle which, is also a form of emerger. You wrote, ”The dry gets their attention and then they take the dropper.” I wrote. ”The reason a dry dropper works is that the dropper gives the fish another food item to consider when it notices the dry fly.” Same idea but different phrasing. I agree with what you wrote.

What I am saying is the idea behind a dry dropper is that the dropper is not on the bottom. A soft hackle behind or an emerger behind a dry dropper is near the film where the flow is much the same velocity as the dry so the dry fly drift is drag free for a lot longer than if the dropper is heavy and designed to sink and bottom bounce.

I do agree that if you fish the dropper as a bottom bouncing nymph, the nymph is the primary fly and the dry is the secondary. The bouyant dry is a strike indicator with a hook.

I think of the dry dropper as a variation of the greased leader tactic. The greased leader tactic goes back to G. E. M. Skues, the father of modern nymph fishing. I think he first wrote about this method in his 1939 book, Nymph Fishing for Chalk Stream Trout.

The greased leader tactic is described in the article below:

"In the greased leader technique, the angler dresses the leader with a paste fly floatant (thick silicone pastes work best), down to within a few inches of the fly. This controls the depth of the fly’s drift, and the angler watches the point where the tippet passes through the surface film for indications of a strike...... This approach works best on very slow currents, and on lakes and ponds when there is minimal wind, as the greased leader will sink in faster or choppy water. It also works well when the light is low, as the greased leader shows up in flat light as a dark line on the surface film of the water. The greased leader technique is perhaps the best method for suspending a pupa pattern just under the surface. In stillwater situations, where the numbers of suspended pupae may be astronomical, a very slow draw of the fly may make it more visible to the fish, and make it easier for the angler to detect a subtle strike….


Midge Fishing in Paradise | MidCurrent

The greased leader is a still water or very flat currents tactic. In the dry dropper, the dry is used in faster water where the greased leader cannot be used and like the greased leader, the length of tippet behind the dry fly is used to determine the depth of the dropper just like the length of un-greased tippet is used to determine the depth of the fly in the greased leader tactic.

I think we are on the same wavelength and the point of discussion is at what depth relative to the top and bottom of the stream does the dry become secondary to the dropper. That is what is the second chance fly.

Here is section on fishing dry droppers by Arron Jasper on dry droppers;

https://books.google.com/books?id=bB...system&f=false

I think that someone wants to fish a buoyant hopper with a bottom bouncing nymph, go for it. My preference is for a two nymph rig and a standard strike indicator in this situation because it is easier to change the distance from the strike indicator to the flies, which is exactly the point that started this thread.

My feeling is that if it hard to change the depth of the dropper nymphs so they can bottom bounce, you may not do it; and if you do do it, it will take more time; and both those situations mean less fish hooked. I want to be able to easily mend the strike indicator and I may not if it is a hopper because I want to “fish” the hopper. To use a dry as a true strike indicator, one must not sacrifice the natural drift of the nymphs as secondary to the natural drift of the dry. You must mend and manage the dry as a strike indicator and NOT as a dry fly when you are primarily nymphing. Otherwise you have the worst of both worlds
__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 05:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SE MN Driftless
Posts: 189
johnstoeckel is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Adjustable Dry Dropper Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
The original poster said:



I wrote:



You wrote:



I am not so sure you are at odds with what I wrote.

I replied to the situation where the nymph is bottom bouncing which is what the original poster was addressing. You wrote that you get most of your strikes on the dropper when it an emerger or soft hackle which, is also a form of emerger. You wrote, ”The dry gets their attention and then they take the dropper.” I wrote. ”The reason a dry dropper works is that the dropper gives the fish another food item to consider when it notices the dry fly.” Same idea but different phrasing. I agree with what you wrote.

What I am saying is the idea behind a dry dropper is that the dropper is not on the bottom. A soft hackle behind or an emerger behind a dry dropper is near the film where the flow is much the same velocity as the dry so the dry fly drift is drag free for a lot longer than if the dropper is heavy and designed to sink and bottom bounce.

I do agree that if you fish the dropper as a bottom bouncing nymph, the nymph is the primary fly and the dry is the secondary. The bouyant dry is a strike indicator with a hook.

I think of the dry dropper as a variation of the greased leader tactic. The greased leader tactic goes back to G. E. M. Skues, the father of modern nymph fishing. I think he first wrote about this method in his 1939 book, Nymph Fishing for Chalk Stream Trout.

The greased leader tactic is described in the article below:

"In the greased leader technique, the angler dresses the leader with a paste fly floatant (thick silicone pastes work best), down to within a few inches of the fly. This controls the depth of the fly’s drift, and the angler watches the point where the tippet passes through the surface film for indications of a strike...... This approach works best on very slow currents, and on lakes and ponds when there is minimal wind, as the greased leader will sink in faster or choppy water. It also works well when the light is low, as the greased leader shows up in flat light as a dark line on the surface film of the water. The greased leader technique is perhaps the best method for suspending a pupa pattern just under the surface. In stillwater situations, where the numbers of suspended pupae may be astronomical, a very slow draw of the fly may make it more visible to the fish, and make it easier for the angler to detect a subtle strike….


Midge Fishing in Paradise | MidCurrent

The greased leader is a still water or very flat currents tactic. In the dry dropper, the dry is used in faster water where the greased leader cannot be used and like the greased leader, the length of tippet behind the dry fly is used to determine the depth of the dropper just like the length of un-greased tippet is used to determine the depth of the fly in the greased leader tactic.

I think we are on the same wavelength and the point of discussion is at what depth relative to the top and bottom of the stream does the dry become secondary to the dropper. That is what is the second chance fly.

Here is section on fishing dry droppers by Arron Jasper on dry droppers;

https://books.google.com/books?id=bB...system&f=false

I think that someone wants to fish a buoyant hopper with a bottom bouncing nymph, go for it. My preference is for a two nymph rig and a standard strike indicator in this situation because it is easier to change the distance from the strike indicator to the flies, which is exactly the point that started this thread.

My feeling is that if it hard to change the depth of the dropper nymphs so they can bottom bounce, you may not do it; and if you do do it, it will take more time; and both those situations mean less fish hooked. I want to be able to easily mend the strike indicator and I may not if it is a hopper because I want to “fish” the hopper. To use a dry as a true strike indicator, one must not sacrifice the natural drift of the nymphs as secondary to the natural drift of the dry. You must mend and manage the dry as a strike indicator and NOT as a dry fly when you are primarily nymphing. Otherwise you have the worst of both worlds
Interesting and informative thread. Think I've used dry and dropper in both manners - with the dry as primary and the dropper fairly high in the water and with a dropper near the bottom.

While nymphing with a indicator might be more effective in some water, dry and dropper is stealthier in shallow, clear water. It also makes it easy to move from the foot deep riffle to the 2 - 3 foot deep run with a minimum of re rigging.

The idea of an adjustable dry and dropper is kind of interesting. But guess I get by adjusting the dropper weight and the dropper tippet length up to about 4 feet. Beyond that I use more traditional nymph methods.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dropper rig repperson29 General Discussion 10 06-07-2015 08:59 AM
Quill dropper lv2nymph Share Patterns 4 03-30-2014 12:06 PM
Dropper setup 50fish General Discussion 7 02-28-2012 10:36 AM
dropper-dropper liv2fish General Discussion 2 05-06-2008 11:33 PM
How to tye a dropper Reactor General Discussion 5 02-27-2007 11:38 AM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2015 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.