[RobDutk]

Well everyone was so helpful with my last post about line weight and rod weight I thought I would throw another question out.

I live in northwest IN and plan on fishing the St. Joe River which for those of you not familiar with it, is a very large fast flowing deep river.

My thought is that a weighted line will be best to get down to the steelhead. ( i used to catch them in the St.Joe on spinning reels bouncing spawn bags off the bottom with a big weight)

Question 1: What are the thoughts in the forum of using sinking leaders vs. sinking line vs. sinking tip line?

Question 2: what type of set up would you suggest for steelhead? (line/ rod wt, type of leaders?) Would you suggest a tippet? or would a tapered mono leader suffice since you are not really "stalking" the fish? (also i have been having a hard time understanding the difference between leader and tippet if anyone would like to explain).

Thanks so much for your willingness to help me ease into the sport.

Rob

[wfosborn]

Hi Rob,

On the sinking tip issue, I can offer my experience with salmon fishing up here in Alaska. I found I prefer a fully floating line and alter my leader length and fly weight to get the depth I want. More versatile and I don't drag the bottom as often. That being said, sinking tip line is by far the most popular up here.

On the leader vs. tippet issue, the tippet is the small line at the end of your leader.

And I've never fished steelhead, so I've got nothing there for you.

--W

[BigCliff]

I think of full-sink lines as being really ideal for fishing stillwaters and the surf but in most other cases, there's a better option. In stillwaters you want a line that will sink in a straight line to the fish/fly so that you have a direct connection to the fly/fish. The same is true in the surf, but instead of simply a line that is sinking in a straight line, you're after a line that sinks so that it isn't made wiggly by the action of the waves. (wiggly=can't feel a strike)

In wading situations, I recommend a sink tip line, sinking leader, or integrated sink tip (teeny type) line so that your running line is floating instead of getting tangled up in your feet while you're wading. If you just need to get a fly down a short distance to the fish, or are fishing in fairly slow water, a sink tip or sinking leader will likely be sufficient. If you are fishing a big, wide steelhead river, a Teeny type line (with a 24' sink tip) is likely a better option. (For instruction on casting a Teeny line, start a new thread or use the search feature)

As to the benefits of a sink tip line vs. sinking leaders, I happen to think sinking leaders are the way to go. That route gives you the option of multiple sink rates and lengths of your sink tip.

The downside is an overloaded rod. The degree to which it is overloaded depends on what sinking leader you put on the end of your line. A 5' intermediate sink leader will not add much more weight to the line you're casting, a 10' extra super fast sink leader will add a good bit.

[tie one on]

Good questions :

I have fished the St. Joe. I live in Ada, MI & have a good friend who
happens to live in Buchannan. We steelhead/salmon fish together when-
ever we get together. I use a sink tip line for deeper water, like the St.
Joe. I use a 10' 7wt Thomas/Thomas rod for steelies & my 9' 9wt Scott for
salmon. (don't have a sink tip for the 9wt yet.) If I really want the fly
down even faster my fly will have either non-lead on the shank or a
conehead.

As far a tippet vs. mono. Tippet is a much smaller diameter fishing line
that can have similar breaking strength as mono. I myself do not use
tiippet on my leaders for steelhead or salmon. I typically have my butt
section off the fly line & tie on a section of 10# Vanish fluorocarbon, then
tie on my fly. A double surgeon's knot has worked well for me. I have not
had a line, or knot failure yet.

Hope this helps,

Tie One On

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Rob,

I don't have time to go into the sink tip question but you need to read this two post in the FAQ section. Is the tippet and leader the same thing. What size tippet do I use. I think these two FAQ post will help you out on leaders.

Frank

[RobDutk]

Originally Posted by tie one on

Good questions :

I use a sink tip line for deeper water, like the St. Joe. I use a 10' 7wt Thomas/Thomas rod for steelies & my 9' 9wt Scott for
salmon. (don't have a sink tip for the 9wt yet.) If I really want the fly
down even faster my fly will have either non-lead on the shank or a
conehead.

Hope this helps,

Tie One On

Helps a ton! THANK YOU. also makes me feel better about my Orvis 7wt line/ and 10' rod that I just purchased to fish for stellies (I was concerned that would be too light). I was hoping I would find someone familiar with the St. Joe since it is such a unique run. Thanks again for helping out a beginner, you guys are really making this a ton easier for a beginner, I just hope I can gain enough knowledge to pass on to my 5 year old daughter and my 1 yr old son when they are ready to fish with me.

Not to ask for too many secrets but I assume that egg patterns are the best on the St. Joe? I used to fish the St. Joe for stellies about 10 years ago before moving to Atlanta but did so with a spinning set up. Spawn bags were all we used so I'm assuming a similar egg pattern would be the ticket with a fly rod?

Should I even bother with leeches and wooley's?

Another question. . . do you ever see the fish on the St. Joe or is it all guess work on where you think they may be?

[RobDutk]

Originally Posted by Frank Whiton

Hi Rob,

I don't have time to go into the sink tip question but you need to read this two post in the FAQ section. Is the tippet and leader the same thing. What size tippet do I use. I think these two FAQ post will help you out on leaders.

Frank

Thanks Frank, I read the post that definitely clears things up for me, from what I gathered a tippet is either a way to attach a smaller diameter line in cases that you want to make the leader more "invisible" to the fish or simply a way to preserve your tapered leader when tying on alot of different flies.

So instead of tying the fly directly to the leader which would eventually tapper up you can tie the fly to the tippet which is a single diameter and more easily replaced than say a tapered leader.

So that lends the question: Why not just use a long tippet attached to the fly line with no tapered leader?

Thanks again!

[HuronRiverDan]

To your question on flies, Egg patterns definitely! Don't discount the Wooly Buggers or Leech patterns.

Good Luck,

Dan

[Hardyreels]

I do the same thing as Will, DT floater #7 and change my leader and weight to get the depth.

Some times I use 20lb floro on the end of my line then a 48 or 72" lead head then a length of 12 Lb floro then the fly.

Did you follow that? Generally I stay away from places where I cant see the bottom or the fish. Save yourself a lot of trouble like that, stumps, boulders, whole trees........ a fellow can lose a lot of flies when he can't see where he is throwing them.

Ard