[tie one on]

Good day to All,

Just curious as to which knot you like to use when tying a
loop at the end of the "butt section" coming off of your fly
line ? For a long time I was using the "Perfection Loop" until
I saw a "Double Surgeons Loop" in a magazine I just received
for extending my subscription to Fly-Fisherman. From what
I've seen so far it seems to have better breaking strength.
What are your thoughts ? Many times when I've hooked a "big
one" or hooked a tree branch the Perfection Loop knot would
be were the break occured. ( my clinch knot at the fly 99%
of the time held )

Second question : Have you ever used the "loop to loop"
connection totally for your leader ?

Always in the water,
Tie One On

[Frank Whiton]

Hi tie one on,

I like the Perfection Loop because I find it quicker to tie. I also find it easier to keep the loop small and it doesn't use as much line to tie the loop. I always struggled to get the Double Surgeon loop the size I wanted. It is true that the double surgeon loop is stronger than the Perfection loop. In Alaska I have use the triple surgeon loop for monster trout.

You may have a problem with the way you are tying the Perfection loop. The butt of the leader is way stronger than the tippet and the tippet should break before the butt loop. If you are tying the Perfection loop correctly the tag end will be at 90 degrees to the main line. You can see it in this photo. If the tag end is not at a right angle to the main line you are not tying it correctly. If you want a really strong connection between the leader butt and the fly line, use the Albright knot.

Most of the time when Nymph fishing I loop on the leader and loop on the tippet. I use the loop knot on the tippet to keep split shot from sliding down the leader.

[Flyfisher for men]

I use the double surgeon's loop. I'm not sure why, but my perfection loop doesn't seem to turn out right when I tie it. Like Frank, I have problems keeping the double surgeon's loop small, but I cope with it.

As far as the loop to loop connection, I use it on the line to leader. I plan use it to attach thin tippet, at Frank's suggestion on another thread. I don't need it for the thicker material I'm using right now as a double durgeon's knot is simple to tie. 7X is another story, though.

[BigCliff]

I do the perfection knot for basiclaly all the same reasons as Frank. Like me, he also might tell you that once you do a ton of knots from working in a shop or something, it really is like riding a bike.

[Frank Whiton]

Cliff is right that the more you tie a knot the easier it is. I am convinced that the best place to practice knots is sitting in front of the TV. This is the place to learn. I like using gold color mono as it is easier to see. Just keep tying the different knots and pretty soon it is a cinch.

[tie one on]

Thanks for all the input :-)

Just so I clarify, my Perfection loop using butt section
material, 20lb. Maxima, has never failed to hold. The next
line down, mostly 10lb Vanish, is the Perfection loop that
typically fails.

I totally agree with you about the size of the Double Surgeons
Loop to the Perfection Loop. I tied several for practice & to put
on two (2) my reels. The DS Loops are considerably bigger than
the small little loops I used to tie with the PL.

Do you find any casting difference with Loop to Loop connections
all the way down verses one Loop to Loop at the end of the butt
section ? (hope this makes some sense)

Tie One On

[Frank Whiton]

Hi tie one on,

Part of your problem may be the Vanish. Vanish has mixed success with Bass fishers and I would try a different leader material. I have seen many reports of knots failing with Vanish. If you try a different leader material I would be interested in your results.

The Loop to Loop connection can create a hing effect in some cases. I have never had a problem but have heard of this happening. I use small loops and that may help. You also have to match the butt diameter of the leader to the size of the fly line. Not that they need to be the same diameter but you need a larger butt on a leader for a 8wt than you would on a 3wt. It is all about a balanced setup. I think you need to try the loop to loop connection and see what results you get. If I was doing a bunch of delicate dry fly fishing I might tie the tippet on with a blood/barrel knot. That is what I used before I started using a loop to tie on the tippet. It is harder to tie than the double surgeon knot but is not as bulky. It has been my experience that looping on the tippet is not a problem for my style of fishing.

[bonefish41]

While I am mostly salt, but I have been using the following set up for smallmouth in Indiana...Rio IGFA hard mono saltwater for butt section three to five feet to loop perfection...their 20kg is .031, their 15 kg is .027, their 10 kg is .021, their 8 kg is .019 (all inch spec) then a packaged one piece tapered leader loop to loop mono or floro ...I have never had RIO's IGFA hard mono fail in perfection but I have had hard mason fail recently in both perfections and bloods...so I switched...if I was trouting with delicate 16 and above I would nail knot a prepacked leader 9' of appropriate end test and coat with UV resin and add lighter tippets with a blood if necessary

[bonefish41]

I forgot to add what I learned from the "slim beauty" designer generally reputed to be Simon Becker of the lower keys/key west...look at his article in mid current about the knot he uses capstick as a lube...now what I do in tying the blood and my hands/fingers are not good...follow the usual directions...when looking at the knot when you have the tags tucked...it's not even if you pull the line side and leader side in that condition it most often will not seat or one of the tag ends pulls out...here's what I do dentists notwithstanding...capstick on lips going to spit wet the knot anyway so just split and lube it ...then holding the line and leader ends pull a bit to see how the jam is going then even the sides up by biting each tag end and pull to even the wraps don't pull the line/leader ends...when you have the jams even in a tight spiral not jamed, particularly the last/end jam then the final setting pull...practice