[jimw]

as Homer Simpson would say " MMMMMMMM Purple stuff"

[racine]

Originally Posted by BigCliff

Looks pretty great to me. I might make that my new official reco in the $100 reel category over the Cortland Endurance. (Wish Steve would carry them)

Only hesitation- that drag adjustment knob looks a little un-grippy. I would have to handle one to know for sure though.

My original doubts about the Litespeed knob which was flatter. I like the looks of the Litespeed but preferred the knob of the Velocity and it's classic looks. You can find the Velocity for reasonable prices given their move to a new bullet proof coating. I have a 1 and 1.5 Velo and love them. Konics are a good value from a very good company with good customer service.

[JOCELIN]

Originally Posted by racine

My original doubts about the Litespeed knob which was flatter. I like the looks of the Litespeed but preferred the knob of the Velocity and it's classic looks. You can find the Velocity for reasonable prices given their move to a new bullet proof coating. I have a 1 and 1.5 Velo and love them. Konics are a good value from a very good company with good customer service.

Velocity are great reels but to say that the Konic is a great value I dont see this the same way

A die cast reel above 100 $ why ?? dont tell me the drag system is the reason because why would you need such a good drag its only a trout reel. All the rest of the die cast reels on the market are from 30 to 50 $ and the drag are adequate. Watch these konic reels go below 100 $ in the near future.

Its like telling us that a small compact car (like a hondA FIT) with brembo formila one brakes is a good value at 3 TIMES THE PRICE OR 36000 $

JOCELIN

BUT THE REELS DOES LOOK GOOD

[BigCliff]

Jocelin, you seem to be operating under the assumption that all die-casting is equally crappy. This seems to me to be about like thinking a Diamondglass rod is the same as the $12 yellow buggy whips eagle claw sells.

(I'm not saying the quality difference is equal, just saying that there's more to a product than what ingredients its made from. Maybe comparing an IM6 rod sold at Dick's to a TFO rod is more relevant.)

[JOCELIN]

Originally Posted by BigCliff

Jocelin, you seem to be operating under the assumption that all die-casting is equally crappy. This seems to me to be about like thinking a Diamondglass rod is the same as the $12 yellow buggy whips eagle claw sells.

(I'm not saying the quality difference is equal, just saying that there's more to a product than what ingredients its made from. Maybe comparing an IM6 rod sold at Dick's to a TFO rod is more relevant.)

Big cliff

I hear what you saying i know they use a special high pressure die cast procedure. I never said the die cast reel were inferior but simply noted their price range. Were talking almost 3 times the price range. Are you prepared to say that the konic is 2 to 3 times better and stronger than other low price reels made of die cast procedure

Is Lamson the only one using high pressure in the forging

What I am saying is all with the pricing and the only good reason lamson gives us is the drag system did you read their site

even them are trying to justify the price, do you know of another reel company that tried to justify the price of their reels





Introducing the new Lamson Konic

Our goal is to bring the best technology in reels to any given price point. We’ve now addressed the important $100+ price point with Konic. Please read on to find out what makes Konic a better reel than any other comparably priced alternative.

When designing the Konic, we started with one given: to incorporate the same fully sealed conical drag system and stainless steel roller clutch used in our high-end reels. The drag system in Konic uses the same fully machined parts, made of the same materials, and to the same specifications, as the drag used in the $400+ Waterworks reels or any of our other high-end reels. This is the principal benefit of the Konic versus competitive reels. What other $100+ reel can say that it shares proven drag technology with a $400+ reel?

In order to deliver this expensive drag in a low-priced reel we are die casting the frame and spool. But this is no low-end die casting. This is Pressure Casting with molten ALDC12 aluminum alloy injected at 1,080 kgs pressure to ensure consistent, smooth and strong parts with lower porosity. Contrast this method with the Gravity Casting used by competitors. Our frame and spool are solid single-part pieces. Again, contrast this with 2-part cast spools that our competition uses. Once cast, the frame and spool are “skim cut� on CNC machines, a process in which a thin surface layer is cut away to provide a finish comparable to fully-machined reel.

We use a 100% solid polyurethane coating to provide a finish that is very resistant to gouging and abrasion. Contrast this to the weaker electrostatic paints that competitive reels use.

The Konic is a lightweight, true large arbor reel. It’s strong, good looking, well put-together and frugal. These are virtues in a fly reel, or a spouse. We can’t help you with the latter, but now we can ship you the former. Konic will be available beginning late August ’07 in a 5-6 weight; and followed in early September with a 3-4 weight. Larger sizes will be available in early ’08:

Is die cast inferior to machined bar stock? There are really two issues here: strength and beauty. The question of strength is a complicated one, but let’s concede that a machined part is stronger, in general, than a die cast part. The better question is this: is a die cast part strong enough? Yes, if designed correctly. As evidence, just about every metal part in your car is die cast including your wheels. Are the highways littered with failed cast aluminum wheels? The other issue is beauty. It’s true that a machined part has more finish options than a die cast part. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and behold Konic: it looks goooooood.

jocelin






Jocelin

[Frank Whiton]

Hi to all,

I think there is some confusion abut many reels on the market. It use to be simply, stamped, cast, or bar stock. Now marketing people have blurred the terminology with saying their reel is machined or totally machined. The best reels are made from bar stock and machined on CNC machines to very close tolerances. There are a bunch of reels calming they are fully machined but there is no claim it is a bar stock reel. If these were bar stock reels I think they would be advertising them as such and the prices would be higher.

A cast reel can be fully machined by casting oversize and machining down to close tolerances. I believe some full machined reels are in fact cast and machined. If it is done that way it should be called a cast/machined reel. I would bet money that some of these fully machined reels are not bar stock. It wouldn't surprise me that some reels may ever be made with sintered metal(powdered metal formed at extreme high pressure) or sintered metal parts. Many automobile parts are made with sintered metal. Parts can also be stamped over sized and then machined. That doesn't make it a machined reel but it gives them the opportunity to say it is a machined reel.

Investment castings can be very precisely made and that could be another process that is being used to cut cost. One reel mentioned in this thread claims to be fully machined but there is some obvious stamping or press work done on the reel. Again they stamp the parts, surface grind or do other finish machining and you have a machined reel.

The purpose of my post is to alert potential buyers of less expensive reels that claim they are machined or fully machined. If you want a fully machined reel look for a bar stock reel.

Frank

[wfosborn]

Originally Posted by Frank Whiton

I think there is some confusion abut many reels on the market. It use to be simply, stamped, cast, or bar stock. Now marketing people have blurred the terminology with saying their reel is machined or totally machined.

Hi Frank,

So what's your take on if they say they are forged & machined? Got me curious what my reel was so I had to go look. I always thought it was a bar stock reel, but maybe I was wrong about that . . . Those sneaky marketing guys . . . Well, the reel has been good to me regardless of how it was made and it sure has taken an awful lot of abuse.

--W

[JOCELIN]

Originally Posted by Frank Whiton

Hi to all,

I think there is some confusion abut many reels on the market. It use to be simply, stamped, cast, or bar stock. Now marketing people have blurred the terminology with saying their reel is machined or totally machined. The best reels are made from bar stock and machined on CNC machines to very close tolerances. There are a bunch of reels calming they are fully machined but there is no claim it is a bar stock reel. If these were bar stock reels I think they would be advertising them as such and the prices would be higher.

A cast reel can be fully machined by casting oversize and machining down to close tolerances. I believe some full machined reels are in fact cast and machined. If it is done that way it should be called a cast/machined reel. I would bet money that some of these fully machined reels are not bar stock. It wouldn't surprise me that some reels may ever be made with sintered metal(powdered metal formed at extreme high pressure) or sintered metal parts. Many automobile parts are made with sintered metal. Parts can also be stamped over sized and then machined. That doesn't make it a machined reel but it gives them the opportunity to say it is a machined reel.

Investment castings can be very precisely made and that could be another process that is being used to cut cost. One reel mentioned in this thread claims to be fully machined but there is some obvious stamping or press work done on the reel. Again they stamp the parts, surface grind or do other finish machining and you have a machined reel.

The purpose of my post is to alert potential buyers of less expensive reels that claim they are machined or fully machined. If you want a fully machined reel look for a bar stock reel.

Frank

Great post Frank and I also believe some lower priced machined fly reel are doing something to offer those reels at those prices. It may be inferior quality bar stock aluminum. Like you said if they were machined from bar stock they would use that as a Marketing option and they dont???

Thant why when i read the Lamson website on the konic reel I fond it very weird that they were so defensive on the subject like they were already implying these die cast reels would create discussion like this.


Jocelin

[steely]

Originally Posted by Frank Whiton

The purpose of my post is to alert potential buyers of less expensive reels that claim they are machined or fully machined. If you want a fully machined reel look for a bar stock reel.

Frank

If you want a fully machined reel look at the Orvis Barstock reel at $89. Not only is it fully machined, not only is it bar stock, but it comes with backing and a fly line already on the reel!
http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?subject=111

Plus, after a year, if you decide that the reel does not meet your expectations, send it back to Orvis with your receipt and they will issue you a full refund!


http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?subject=111

The Orvis 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
For over 150 years we have offered the strongest return policy in the business. We will refund your money on any purchase that isn't 100% satisfactory -- any time, for any reason. It's that simple.


Why does Lamson charge %50 more for a die cast reel than a bar stock reel (that comes with backing AND A FLY LINE!?? THEIR NAME!! They would almost sell you a plastic bag with poop in it if it had their brand logo on it! That is how full of themselves they are! "we are lamson, we can sell a fly fisherman a bag of poop as long as it has our brand logo on it"

So we have a die cast reel for $130 for trout versus a machined barstock reel with backing and with a fly line for $89.

[racine]

This isn't your daddy's cast aluminum reel. Another consideration is where was the Konic produced? China, Malaysia, Korea or the US. You've got to consider that $100 today isn't what it was even say 10 yrs ago, at least in my eyes. I'm also not saying you can't find a good reel for under a $100 but when I look at the quality of Lamson reels and the tolerances compared to other nice reels it stands up by itself with an innovative drag, overkill for most trout, but innovative nevertheless supported by good customer service and warranties. I guess when I look at say Sage, or Ross or even Orvis, it still seems unique on it's own. But hey it's my opinion and I do own a few. Remember Charlton when they sold for $375? Not the same class but it's an analogy...