[MrEsox]

For the most part, sunfish as a whole grow slower since there can be a great deal of them swimming in a pond. Not enough food to go around. This makes easy pickings for larger fish like bass. It has been found that largmouth bass are not picky on what they eat. Often very big largemouth will feed on almost anything. Recent studies have shown that largemouth bass have a greater impact on the survival of walleyes more then what musky and pike do. When you get down south (Texas, Mexico, and even southern Colorado) there is a little fish that kind of runs rampent. Some of the lakes that in Mexico that are kicking out some of the big Largies have this same fish in it. The Tilapia. Look um up and you'll see that a sunfish has nothing on them. They have a gill covering that can cut your hand wide open. Their spines are just as bad. Thing is the bass that are in those lakes eat them like candy. Sunfish when small are eaten by almost anything that can get their mouth on them. Fish have it in them on what to do when eating them. Take a 15" largie and open his mouth and take a look at what all can fit in there. So take a pond that has for the most part nothing but those green sunfish in it and that will be the most likely thing eaten by the bass that is in there. Its not a factor of yes or no, it is a factor of most abondant. Up here eyes, a fish that ya have teeth but not the biggest mouths, feed often on young of the year to year old crappie and white bass very much. In the lake closest to my home, we often find eyes in deep water feeding on small crappies. Found them after cleaned and from what they have puked up in the live well. Same with smallies and perch. Point is, spines may be for defence but a fish that is big enough to get its mouth around a smaller fish, spines wont help. Swallow head first and that little sunfish is now dinner. It is a simple fact that big fish eat little fish, cant get around that.

On a side note, the only way you can tell if the bass in a pond like that are not feeding on the greenies is A do a stomach analysis, or B how many large greenies are in the pond? Often times due to the great breading often many sunfish survive vrs number of bass in a pond. Since there isnt enough food to go around you end up with a lot of little sunfish. Bass since they feed much differantly after a few years of life, often have better feeding. When you get into pond ecology you end up having many factors that dictate growth factors of fish in that pond. If you would like to know more look me up.

[FlyGal]

I don't know much about greenies, but one to many times I've taken a kiddo out fishing with the kiddie rod & worms and hooked a sunny or crappie and a big 'Ol' bass slams it when the kid is landing them....

The shocked face on the kid when this happens is priceless!

[Flyfisher for men]

Fox Statler, MrEsox, and FlyGal, I'll sort of make a general response to all three of you at once since your all talking about the same general things.

I've caught a lot of bass by fishing a live, green sunfish or bluegill under a bobber, while I played around with a fly rod or spinning outfit. Some of the bluegills/sunfish will be five inches long and fifteen inch bass will still hammer them Normally, the bobber is there one second and then gone with no fooling around. It's always a scramble because it's so quick. They've already got the fish headfirst in just the few seconds that it takes to drop one rod and grab the other. I set the hook immediately and lose very few fish. It's clear they are taking the bait with gusto.

I like the bait to be three inches long, and prefer a green sunfish because of the spine thing, though I can't honestly see any difference from catch rate or the way the fish take the bait. Even a twelve inch bass will hit a bluegill or sunfish of that size with authority. I've long suspected that the head first thing negates any trouble that might come from spines, as MrEsox said.

Minnow imitations certainly work, its just that a lot of the ponds don't have a lot of them. The forage base is pretty much small panfish and crayfish. A green sunfish imitation would be more natural. Plus, it gives me one more reason to go fishing if I have to try out a new fly.

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Flyfisher for men,

I agree with you that sunfish are a main diet for Bass. At lease that is the case here in Florida. Take a look at this Bluegill imitation.

Frank

[Fox Statler]

Sorry but biologist state very plainly that bass prefer torpedo shape fish like walleye over sunfish because of what they learn at an early age, slab-sided fish with large spiney fins are hard to swallow. I have yet to see a 5 inch crankbait sunfish sold at a Bass Pro or even a 5 inch soft-plastic sunfish. Next if the food is so scarce in your ponds why are there so many sunfish. Why aren't they dying out? Why aren't they being eat by your starving bass? The truth is the sunfish are starving your Bass and causing your bass to eat your smaller bass. The sunfish are also stunting the growth of your bass because they eat about the same things. The best thing you can do for your pond is to put in a couple big flathead catfish. They will decrease your sunfish population leaving more food for your bass. However given the choice, the bass will always choose the torpedo shaped pattern over the slab-sided pattern. You don't have to match the hatch to catch bass. You simply have to get their attention. Even a worm is a better pattern for a bass than a sunfish pattern.

[liv2fish]

Fox, although I agree with you as far as the profile of fish/spines and bass not wanting them, lets just assume that someone needs the sunfish pattern anyway... I would tie something similar to the cabelas patterns mentioned earler. Use EP fibers instead of bucktail, its a synthetic that is easier to work with IMO. You just want to tie in the colors in the order they are shown starting in the back of the fly. Even just having a dark green color on top, and a yellow bottom and maybe a little bit of bright orange or red near the front should do the trick for a sunfish imitation. A sharpie can be used to add spots or eyes as in Franks picture or if you want more of a perch imitation, just put stripes down the sides instead of spots.

[kelkay]

What sized hook is that James Wood Bucktail tied on?

[Diver Dan]

I caught a Largemouth that went about 6lbs. once. It's entire mouth was full of Bluegill tails hanging out of his throat. Not little bluegills either. Based on this bass with an eating disorder, I would have to say it can't be to bad a pattern. There is an article in a magazine by Enrico Puglisi, that I have, that shows how to do a really good bluegill. I am sure you could tweek it into a Green Sunfish without to much trouble. If you are interested I will dig through my magazines and find the article.

[kelkay]

I made a couple of those but in a different color. I appreciate you putting that post on here. I am hoping that largemouth bass as well will be interested since no smallies are where I live....I do plan to go to Broken Bow in the fall...maybe some smallies will go after it then. Nice fly!!

One other thing, I did not put any weight on the flies, and I am wondering if I should of done that....
Also I used a size 8 streamer hook, hopefully that works out alright.

[kelkay]

I made one with yellow flashy type chenille, white bucktail, and a red head. (I don't have blue) I also made one with chartreuse bucktail and a red head. I think maybe I should make one less showy in case they aren't in for bright colors that day.