Hook difference in PT?

[mikel]

disclaimer: I don't tie...yeah, I know I should, but just don't have the patience.

I found and started fishing PT's tied on a curved (like a scud) hook, rather than a straight shank. They've been very effective for me, although on a regular hook they sure catch fish too. Has there been much discussion among tiers about tieing PTs on hooks with differring shank shape?

If this is really dumb, just laff at me.

-Mike

[dhayden]

I prefer them on the Tiemco 2487/57 style hooks

Not sure why.. but they seem to do better for me

[trout trekker]

Hi Mike,

I'd agree with the 2487/2457's on moving water, but I still prefer an un-beaded straight shank ( 1 XL, #14-16 ) version when I need to strip / twitch them on stillwaters.
Anybody still fish a Sawyers P.T.?

Best, TT

[mikel]

Originally Posted by trout trekker

Hi Mike,

I'd agree with the 2487/2457's on moving water, but I still prefer an un-beaded straight shank ( 1 XL, #14-16 ) version when I need to strip / twitch them on stillwaters.
Anybody still fish a Sawyers P.T.?

Best, TT

I've only fished them in moving water so far and I'll pay attention to that. It seems that fish come to them eagerly and I seem to have a better hookup ratio. Don't know if that makes sense based on hook shape??

Thanks! -Mike

[Rip Tide]

They may look like that when curled up in your hand, but there's not a bug alive that can swim, walk, or crawl all scrunched up like that.
Any fly tied in that manner is meant to catch the fisherman rather that the fish

[dhayden]

Originally Posted by Rip Tide

Any fly tied in that manner is meant to catch the fisherman rather that the fish

You shoudl try it.. then decide

[Rip Tide]

Originally Posted by dhayden

You shoudl try it.. then decide

I didn't say it wouldn't work. Of course it will, usually.
But when designing or trying out a new fly you need to think about "triggers".
Things that the fish see that identifies it as something that the fish will want to eat or on the other end, some unnatural quality that the fish sees that disqualifies your fly as a food.
Your fly doesn't need to be a perfect copy of the natural, but negative triggers may cause the fish to look elsewhere.
Why do that on purpose?

[silver creek]

I think they work in straight and curve hooks equally well. The most important factor is that there is an adequate hooking gap. When you see a certain "shape" for a nymph, it is a shape that is not permanent. Aquatic insects change their shape when they are free in the water.

For example, scud are tied on "scud" hooks; but scuds are straight and not curved when they are swimming. So why do we tie them on curved hooks?

"When a scud swims, its body is held quite straight."

Nymphing - Gary A. Borger - Google Books

"First of all, swimming scuds, the kind fish are likely to see, are as straight as a needle and only curl up into the typical scud fly profile when they are crawling around on something."

California School of Flyfishing, Nevada City and Truckee, CA > Entomology > Scuds

I quote myself from an identical discussion,

"Often times, the accepted position of a fly is contrary to the biology of the real thing. An example is the lowly scud. Although they are commonly tied on curved hooks, scuds bodies are often in a straight position when swimming. And when are they most available to the fish? When they are swimming! Yet most fish caught on scud patterns are on a curved hook, because that is how commercial tiers tie them, because that is what the fishing public believes."



The best "shape" for a PT is the Tiemco 200R and not a scud style hook like the 2487. But in small sized 200R the hook gape is very small and it has poor hooking capabilities.

Personally, I like to tie PT's in 2XL, 1XH hooks but in smaller sizes I will tie them in larger gap hooks.

[silver creek]

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[FlyFlinger2421]

LOL! The comments about scuds reminds me of what is referred to as the "buggy look". It has always seemed to me that this is a perfect example of a misnomer, since insects have exoskeletons and most appear just the opposite of "fuzzy"! Yet nymphs with a "buggy look" have caught many fish.