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Old 04-22-2014, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
I like and use UV flies. They work for me and Joni. What doesn't seem to work is that UV spray you put on, let it dry and fish it. At least it doesn't seem to work for me. There are some that swear by it though.
Perhaps that's just the conditions of your river, water/fish/background contrast/depth/etc. that has something to do with that (different result based on product used). As Leisure Suit Larry might say, "when Aqua Velva isn't catching you babes, splash on half a bottle of Hai Karate then disco." Which personally, I think would be terrible advice.....Everyone knows you need to bathe in Jovan with an English Leather over-splash.

Besides, it's rarely "just" one thing as BigJim5589 states. The water fished in, weather of the day, how that fly looks in relation to depth/background/light, heck even how much the fish are already catching and their general mood....A gazillion variables.

That's why I've always believed the initial appropriate presentation is key.......
"Hey baby, grrrr, I'm an Aries what's your sign? What say we truck on over to the gravel beds and get....
funkayyyyyy."

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Old 04-22-2014, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

If one decides to use any of the UV2 products, Spirit River suggests that one of these three materials be used as a base - under the abdomen or thorax of the pattern:

Click the image to open in full size.

White thread - I like the Fl. White from UTC...

Click the image to open in full size.

Silver Mylar...

Click the image to open in full size.

Pearl Mylar...

This is a variation of Loren Williams' BARON with Pearl Mylar under the UV2 Turkey Biot abdomen:

Click the image to open in full size.

If one wishes to slide into the use of these materials gradually, I suggest trying the UV2 dubbing enhancers to mix with a regular dubbing...(on left):

Click the image to open in full size.

More information is HERE:

https://spiritriver.com/materials/ty...pectrum-blends

I will not use the spay on stuff which I consider to be overkill and of dubious effectiveness...

If these materials did not work, Craig Matthews would not be offering them, in a number of his proven patterns, sold at Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone


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Old 04-22-2014, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

Spirit River calls their material UV2. I think the "2" in UV 2 refers to UV Fluorescence + UV Reflectance.

From a Spirit River UV2 Advertisement :

"The UVR spectrum is extremely common in the animal/insect world. This is how bees find flowers and mayflies find mates. While many male species exhibit UVR to attract mates or to feed, many females exhibit less UVR to camouflage themselves and their young.

UVR is abundant in plankton, algae, baitfish, invertebrates & similar species. UV sensitive cones in the eyes of fish allow them to see in much greater detail in adverse water and light conditions......

Our special UVEM™ dye processes on feathers and furs add more UVR by increasing its electron mobility, its luminescence and overall light spectrum. The UVEM™ is high in reflectivity and has diffusing properties, which the animal world identifies and exploits. With a special UV light held behind a material, the lighter shades (red and above) will glow ever so slightly.

A better way of saying this is that our fluorescent materials “scream” at you and our UVEM™ materials “whisper” to you."


I don't doubt that Spirit River UV2 materials are effective. However, they imply that somehow they imitate the UV reflectivity of natural bugs. Notice that they don't actually say their UV reflectance matches bugs or bait fish; but they mention it, and they want you to make the logical leap that they cannot state.

If I wrote that aquatic insects reflect visible light and that I had dubbing for sale that reflected visible light, you would say, "So what!" The fact that my dubbing reflects light does not mean my dubbing MATCHES the color of the real insects. No where in the ad does it say that the Spirit River material actually matches the UV reflection of insects or baitfish. Just as in the visible spectrum, there are specific UV colors(wavelengths). To actually imitate the UV reflectivity of a food, the tying material has to reflect that UV wavelength and no other!

That leads to my belief that the Spirit River materials work primarily by fluorescence. By mixing fluorescent material into dubbing and adding fluorescence into natural materials, I think the Spirit River materials increase the visibility of flies tied with their materials.

If UV reflectance was the main reason they worked, we have been using a highly reflective UV material for decades. That is mylar tinsel. Mirrored materials reflect both visible and invisible light from infrared to ultraviolet.

Sun worshippers used to use these back in the 1960's to reflect both UVA and UVB radiation that causes stimulates melanin production and skin tanning.

Remember these?

Click the image to open in full size.

I suggest this article on UV reflective and UV reactive (fluorescent) tying materials. Read the comments section as well. The comment by 1M1Ucla pretty much mirrors my thinking on the subject.

Shining a Light on UV Materials | MidCurrent

Reed Curry wrote a book on Trout and UV Vision and by extension promotes using UV reflecting materials for fly tying. The problem, as I have mentioned in the past, is how do we know what UV “color” to use when we cannot pick our the right “shade” of UV because we cannot see into the UV spectrum.

Read the comments on this blog to the interview of Reed Curry.

Ultra violet fly tying materials catch fish, Q&A with author Reed Curry | The Caddis Fly: Oregon Fly Fishing Blog
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by planettrout View Post

If these materials did not work, Craig Matthews would not be offering them, in a number of his proven patterns, sold at Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone


PT/TB
To be fair, if Craig Matthews thought incorporating buffalo chips into his patterns would sell more flies, he would do so. Just saying...
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

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Originally Posted by whatfly View Post
To be fair, if Craig Matthews thought incorporating buffalo chips into his patterns would sell more flies, he would do so. Just saying...
...fail...

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Old 05-24-2014, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

All of our flies are tied with UV reflecting materials, some reflect more than others. For example, iridescent feathers absorb most of the ambient UV, thus peacock herl is dark in the UV. OTOH, natural white duck quills and teal flank feathers reflect most of the UV. Thus you have the Coachman, Zug Bug, Prince Nymph, etc..

A killer dry fly for many trout fishermen is the Adams. Natural grizzly hackle is really interesting in the UV.
Adams in visible light
Click the image to open in full size.

Adams in ultraviolet light
Click the image to open in full size.

Regarding how far UV penetrates water, the max depth recorded is 600 meters. You can see videos of SCUBA divers at greater than 200 feet in fairly turbid fresh water with their fluorescent patches and swim fins glowing.

Another fly that we use is the Royal Coachman in all its manifestations. If the hairwing Royal Coachman is tied with natural white bucktail or kip, the result looks like this in the UV -

Click the image to open in full size.

So, we are always using UV materials. We just might want to use them in ways to emulate the natural insect in the UV.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

Regarding that Eccles blog post, the distinction we need to make is that while mature trout may or may not retain some 15% UV specific cones in the dorsal temporal retina, it doesn't matter to us fishermen. Because the L, M, S (RGB) cones all support a secondary peak in the UV. Further, the rods of the retina used at dusk and nighttime are very sensitive to UV and the percentage of solar UV increases at dusk. So, we will let the scientists battle out the UV specific cone issue, they all agree that mature trout have UV input from the RGB cones.

BTW, whitetail deer have a huge percentage of rods in their retinas, all the better to see at dusk and dark when they do much of their feeding. And, yes, they are sensitive to UV. Which is handy, because that white tail warning flag is highly UV reflective, allowing the herd to follow the leader at top speed when fleeing from a predator in near dark conditions.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

I think confidence in a fly outweighs the latest marketing stuff. Confidence influences presentation. Presentation is key as a previous poster mentioned. Do you ever notice when yo up are using a confidence fly that you tend to focus on the retrieve a little more or that you may tend to slow the retrieve down a bit? When you are using a fly without high confidence then a tendency to rush the presentation to hurriedly dismiss the fly to change out for your confidence fly probably occurs. Just saying...
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arreflections View Post
I think confidence in a fly outweighs the latest marketing stuff. Confidence influences presentation. Presentation is key as a previous poster mentioned. Do you ever notice when yo up are using a confidence fly that you tend to focus on the retrieve a little more or that you may tend to slow the retrieve down a bit? When you are using a fly without high confidence then a tendency to rush the presentation to hurriedly dismiss the fly to change out for your confidence fly probably occurs. Just saying...
I think there's a whole lot of truth to this. Not that there may not be some advantage to uv materials. I don't know. Heck, this whole fly fishing thing is about confidence. We need to have a boatload of confidence when we expect all the junk we wrap around a hook to compete with moving, soft, scented, translucent, un-tethered bugs floating down the river! Whatever it takes - the more confident I am in the fly, the longer and more intently I tend to fish it.

Mark
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

Interesting thread. I'm glad the op posted his question.


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Old 07-04-2014, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Ultra Violet Flies?

I agree about confidence. I don't know why, but it makes so much difference.

I have put up a short essay about the matter of mature trout having vision in the ultraviolet. See Ultraviolet Vision in Trout
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