Comparadun vs Parachute

[iracmiller]

In an effort to cut the cost of purchasing flies (no, tying them myself is not an option), what are the essential differences between comparaduns and parachutes? It can become a bit expensive buying the same fly in different sizes and then in different styles ( catskill, nymph, emerger, parachute, comparadun). It seems to me the parachute and comparadun are duplicative in that they can represent traditional duns, emergers in the film and spinners. If so, why have both? If you had to choose, which one and why? Enlighten me.

 

[williamhj]

I tie both for my boxes. Here is why:
- Though they do both sit low in the surface film they have slightly different profiles. To my eyes the comparadun gives a slighter profile on the water. May not seem like much, but...
- I have times when fish in a given river/on a given day will come up and look at one without taking, then when I switch to the other the fish will take. Same size, same color, same tippet, etc but different profile.
- Generally I find parachute styles float better in choppy water.

Of note, I usually tie the sparkledun variation of the comparadun. Find it easier to tie and it works well.

 

[dillon]

The comparadun is one of my main flies used during a mayfly hatch. I tie it with 2 microfibett fibers for the tail. i use it primarily when a fish is rising but i do not see it eating duns. if I do see the fish taking duns i usually fish a throrax dun, but the compara dun may also get eaten. i will use a sparkle dun as mentioned when I think fish may be keying on a mayfly in an earlier stage of emergence. I think they may be attracted to the shuck tail.

I also carry parachutes and fish them to represent a floating nymph or a spinner. However, I have other patterns for these stages that i prefer i.e. floating nymphs with a cdc wing and rusty spinners. The parachute may get used when visability of these patterns is an issue.

I have an entire box dedicated to various stages and sizes of PMD's, as it is the primary mayfly hatch i fish:

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-tying-articles/370251-pmds.html

 

[stenacron]

I'm a Comparadun guy for the most part (and/or Sparkle Duns). When tied correctly they; float like a cork, no flotant needed, and are practically indestructible. Mayfly hatches are fleeting events and the last thing you want to be doing is changing out a chewed-up fly.

One nod towards Parachute Duns is that white post. Under low light or heavy shade conditions they are really visible.

 

[silver creek]

I also carry both parachute and sparkle duns. I have given up tying the comparaduns, finding the sparkle dun to be a more effective fly.

Many if not most fly fishers consider the parachute to be a "dry" fly. This means that it represents the fully emerged sub-imago, or dun version of the mayfly. Duns are fully emerged, and float ON the surface film.

Gary Borger in Fishing the Film, pp. 37 argues that parachutes are NOT an imitation of the dun but a stage 3 emerger. The supporting hackle fibers are ABOVE the fly body and this places the body of the fly IN the film. I tie my parachutes with the hackle concave side up so the fly side up and tie the hackle off on the post so the fly body is even deeper in the film. I believe this imitates a more susceptible stage of emergence.

The sparkle dun body is ON the film with an empty nymphal husk still attached. It is a stage 4 emerger, which is later emerger than the parachute.

I just returned from fishing the Madison River and there were times when the parachute would out perform the sparkle dun and at other times the sparkle dun would out perform the parachute. A fish that would refuse one pattern would take the other. I believe this is evidence that the fish do NOT view these patterns as interchangeable.

 

[planettrout]

I also carry both parachute and sparkle duns. I have given up tying the comparaduns, finding the sparkle dun to be a more effective fly.

Many if not most fly fishers consider the parachute to be a "dry" fly. This means that it represents the fully emerged sub-imago, or dun version of the mayfly. Duns are fully emerged, and float ON the surface film.

Gary Borger in Fishing the Film, pp. 37 argues that parachutes are NOT an imitation of the dun but a stage 3 emerger. The supporting hackle fibers are ABOVE the fly body and this places the body of the fly IN the film. I tie my parachutes with the hackle concave side up so the fly side up and tie the hackle off on the post so the fly body is even deeper in the film. I believe this imitates a more susceptible stage of emergence.

The sparkle dun body is ON the film with an empty nymphal husk still attached. It is a stage 4 emerger, which is later emerger than the parachute.

I just returned from fishing the Madison River and there were times when the parachute would out perform the sparkle dun and at other times the sparkle dun would out perform the parachute. A fish that would refuse one pattern would take the other. I believe this is evidence that the fish do NOT view these patterns as interchangeable.

Yep...agree,,,


PT/TB :thumbsupu

 

[myt1]

Is there any chance someone could post a picture of both the Comparadun and the Parachute side by side.

I'm have a hard time understanding the difference.

Thanks, Rick

 

[planettrout]

Is there any chance someone could post a picture of both the Comparadun and the Parachute side by side.

I'm have a hard time understanding the difference.

Thanks, Rick

Here:

Comparadun:

Sparkle Dun/Comparadun

Parachute Dun:

AK's Quilled Parachute Dun


PT/TB

 

[iracmiller]

So, what I glean so far from the responses to date is:

Parachute: Will represent a dun.
May represent a spinner better, but not as well as a purposes tied
spinner.
May represent an emerger in or on the film, but not as well as a
purpose tied merger such as a klinkhammer
Will float better in choppy water.

Comparadun/Sparrkle Dun: Is easier to tie(not a factor to me).
Will do much the same as the Parachute except
as an emerger in the film
Is slimmer in profile making it more realistic


AND THE ANSWER IS: GET EM BOTH BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT A TROUT WILL TAKE ON A PARTICULAR DAY

 

[myt1]

Thank you Planettrout.

I guess I could've done that myself...sorry.

So, the comparadun sits a little lower in the water.

I've always been one of those guys that figured no problem encountered during fly fishing was so great that it couldn't be solved by using the correct size parachute Adams...in black, of course.

I guess I will be amending that and adding some comparaduns to my fly box.

Thanks again, Rick

 

[Rip Tide]

A Haystack and Usual fan myself


Q.. "hey what's that fly you're using ?"
A... "the Usual"

 

[silver creek]

Is there any chance someone could post a picture of both the Comparadun and the Parachute side by side.

I'm have a hard time understanding the difference.

Thanks, Rick

 

[sweetandsalt]

Not that I don't carry any, I do, but as Silver pointed out and is visible in the above image, I regard parachute flies as defective design as mayfly legs protrude from the lower portion of the thorax, not from above as in a parachute. The Al Caucci/Bob Nastasi developed Comparadun...no doubt owing some homage to the Fran Betters Usual...is a superior design and multi faceted as its splayed coastal deer hair wing suggests as sprawled or spent wing, the fibers are the length of a wing not legs, suggesting not quite upright yet recently emerged duns or possibly a cripple of even spinner, a diversified design that floats well too and is quit visible. I like them tied the original way with as sparse an abdomen as possible and with split micro fibbet tails. I have caught countless trout on Comparaduns in various sizes both east and west and always have a row or two of them in my box.

An application of parachute style hackle I prefer is the emerger suggesting "Quigley Cripple" style and its CDC variants as tied by Rene Harrop. Here, the nymph like body with shuck, sparkle or soft feather fiber like partridge or even marabou tips is undressed while the hackle and deer hair post is treated with silicone flaotant. A very effective in and beneath the film imitation and very productive to fish early in a hatch.

Dillon mentioned Thorax Duns which owe their origin all the way back to F. Halford on the chalk streams in the late 1800's and popularized on our side of the pond by Vince Marinaro and latter, the Henry's Fork tiers like Roger Keckheisen. When trout are sipping duns on clear technical water, the thorax dun has no equal, it is the sparsest, most natural silhouette and accurate meniscus footprint fly there is. I prefer microfibbet tails to natural hackle.

A newer design that Dillon ties and I fish is the stacked hackle style which can be tied either as an emerger or dun and makes a fine crumpled wing spinner too.

I carry all the above and more but by far most critical is drag free and fly first presentation. Zero loops of tippet in front of the fly and zero micro drag. Would you eat a hamburger wiggling across your plate?

 

[wthorpe]

I cannot add anything to the substance of this thread -- I wish I could. But I just want to say that this is a very informative thread, and exhibit A for why this forum is so informative.

 

[hokiehunter07]

I was a bit of a late adopter of the comparadun. Following the typical pattern instructions that have you prop up the wing in 3 bunches I could simply never get it to look right. As such I never did much with it.

Later when I decided to just push the whole bunch back and add a pile of dubbed thread in front, I could get the wing to stand up and fan properly. Once I got my first decent looking comparadun I took it to my local blue lines and the brookies made me a believer.

I am using the term comparadun but honestly I mean sparkle dun. I almost exclusively tie them all in sparkle variations. In fact just about any dry tied with the nymphal shell still attached seems like a bigger producer to me.

As far as the sparkle dun goes, tie the wing slightly pushed back (or push it back on the water and you essentially have a fly that mimics an x-caddis.

Tie the wing propped up per the standard instructions and you have a great emergining mayfly pattern.

Push the wing forward and you almost have a hair wing kebari fly with most of the body in the film (harder to see but deadly on calmer water).

It's naturally buoyant, but add a little gink to a size 12 and you can indicate 1-2 nymphs with ease. I almost always hang an rs2, barr emerger, or soft hackle off the back with excellent results.

You can do a lot of the above with a parachute and have great success. You'll not likely have the same level of durability as has been mentioned.

As a not so new tier but someone with two mortgages, a stay at home wife, and two kids, I don't have the $$$ for expensive quality hackle. A $3 patch of deer / elk hair and I can tie dries til the cows come home.

Hokie.

 

[sweetandsalt]

For the record, Caucci's original Comparadun was, with split tails, intended to be a "dun" imitation. It was Craig Mathew's (Blue Ribbon Flies, W.Yellowstone) idea to substitute sparkle yarn, trailing shuck suggesting material. If tied in sparsely and with a ragged not straight cut at its end, this variant works well though there are better emerger-specific patterns. I find the original with well split tails to be more productive and have a better surface film footprint.

May I suggest to all dry fly tiers; look at a mayfly dun perched on the outside of a window from within, from the trout's perspective as it were. Note the very short distance from the body the legs are and how the upright wing, visible as if a tiny sailboat to us may be obscured by aspects of the watery surface to the fish. The tails too may arch upward so the dominant footprint in the meniscus is that of the insect's abdomen and delicate short legs...much shorter and sparser than conventional length wound hackle. Such observations of the natural are my guide to dry fly design...not patterns in a book. Traditional, established patterns emphasize floatation not imitation and the hackle and legs are invariably way too long.

 

[Rip Tide]

For the record, Caucci's original Comparadun was, with split tails, intended to be a "dun" imitation. It was Craig Mathew's (Blue Ribbon Flies, W.Yellowstone) idea to substitute sparkle yarn, trailing shuck suggesting material.

For the record, Al Caussi's Comparadun is a variation based on Fran Better's original Haystack.
Betters designed the original for the rough and tumbling streams of the Adirondacks and Caucci stripped it down to better perform on more docile waters

 

[hokiehunter07]

Traditional, established patterns emphasize floatation not imitation and the hackle and legs are invariably way too long.

Oddly enough, though, most conventional tails do not even remotely come close to the actual mayfly tail length. I guess the standard length may touch the water surface about the same distance a dun's tails contact though...

 

[sweetandsalt]

For the record, Al Caussi's Comparadun is a variation based on Fran Better's original Haystack.
Betters designed the original for the rough and tumbling streams of the Adirondacks and Caucci stripped it down to better perform on more docile waters

I believe I gave credit to Betters original design influence two posts above. Caucci says "no", his is an "imitation" Better's is "impressionistic" with an emphasis on unsinkability. I raise an eyebrow anyway. Fact is, there is very, very little that can be called "invented by", virtually all design elements have been used in some fly tying context somewhere in history.

Currently, we are enjoying a late season, multi-brood Ephemerella, E.dorothea, the Sulphur Dun, up on the 54 degree W.Br. of the Delaware. It has a remarkably bright and pale yellow body. The bronze finish on dry fly hooks significantly makes the pale fur dubbing of the imitation way darker once on the water. So, back in the 80's I had a brainstorm based on artist's water color technique. Water colors are translucent and gain their appealing brightness due to the quality white paper beneath the paint so, using bass bug lacquer and a tooth pick, I painted #18 Tiemco straight eye hook shanks white and dried them in a Champagne cork. The pale dubbed flies I tied were indeed significantly brighter and I thought I had "invented" a truly novel design element. So, I bragged about this to a fishing buddy who is an expert tier and collector of both British and American first edition fishing books. "Oh", he said, "clearly you haven't read J.W.Dunne's, Sunshine and the Dry Fly. Dunne was painting hook shanks in 1924." Hmmm, OK, fine. So much for my ©!

 

[silver creek]

The common unstated assumption when fly fishers get together and discuss patterns is that trout see as well and in the same way as humans. Actually trout visual acuity is very poor compared to our human vision. So fly patterns that fool fish with tails lengths that do not match the actual insect or fluorescent parachute posts that do not match any color in insects must be viewed in that context.

Here is a discussion of trout vision and snell's window, the portal through which trout view the "outside" world.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...sion-how-does-trout-catch-fly.html#post794007

But trout vision does not explain everything that happens.

The other unstated assumption that fly fishers make when discussing trout is to assume that all trout act the same. They do not and cannot. There is population variance just as there is in any biologic system.

Just as human individuals will not act the same under identical circumstances, trout will not. Behavior will vary. So any single behavior that we may observe must be viewed as an individual behavior until we have observed enough behaviors to judge what is typical and atypical.

What we are trying to do as fly fishers is to appeal to the greatest proportion of the trout population we are fishing to in any given situation. So when we use a parachute fly and it catches fish but then stops working, we switch to a comparadun and it works, we should not be surprised.

We are sampling the population. The parachute worked on the fish that were susceptible to that pattern and the comparadun worked on the population that were susceptible to that fly.

I explain this concept in my post about selectivity.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...hy-how-do-trout-become-selective-feeders.html