The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > The Fly Cast

The Fly Cast Discuss fly casting with the expert, ask for help, learn to cast farther, increase your accuracy, troubleshoot your cast.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 09:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 61
Blog Entries: 2
vsyogi is on a distinguished road
Default Double Hauls Or Rod?

Alright so I started practicing my double hauls today. Needless to say im having a problem with them. I start by letting out some line and get into single hauls to get more line out( my single hauls are fine I can feel the rod totally load up and feel the line straighten out). Then I go straight into the double hauls, as in the singles I feel the rod load up totally on the back cast and line straighten out. But whenever I get into the forward haul I notice the tip of the rod start to wobble. So the line gets all wavy and if I wait to long the line nips the ground, or if I rush it I get the line to make the dreaded SNAP! Well the line kind of looks like this------

____LINE TIP
(_______~~__~~__~~______
WAVY LINE

I know its not the best example but I hope you get it. The thing is I get the distance from the double hauls but looking to get the presentation better. Does it sound like it's me or the rod? Please help!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:47 AM
MoscaPescador's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,727
Blog Entries: 4
MoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

It could be two things.
1. Technique. You are overpowering your forward cast. Back off a bit.
2. Rod. What you have could be "tip bounce." This happens with rods made from lower quality materials. The rod can't handle the higher line speeds that you are generating with the double haul.

If you have a local shop around you, have the shop guy look at your cast and cast your rod. He could probably evaluate what might be your problem.

If you have a friend who is a skilled caster, have him do the same.

MP
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 08:51 AM
randyflycaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 594
randyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to all
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

Also, you might have added slack in the line, possibly by executing your upward haul too quickly. It's very hard to diagnose casting problems from posts.

Maybe this will help:

http://www.flyandspincasting.com/FightWind.html

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 09:21 AM
BigCliff's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 4,313
BigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant future
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoscaPescador View Post
1. Technique. You are overpowering your forward cast. Back off a bit.
This is my guess. You are most likely overpowering the forward cast.

Other possibilities are that you are accelerating too fast in the early part of the forward power stroke. Without a haul this would generally result in a tailing loop, but I suppose combined with a haul it could produce waves in the rod tip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoscaPescador View Post
If you have a local shop around you, have the shop guy look at your cast and cast your rod. He could probably evaluate what might be your problem.

If you have a friend who is a skilled caster, have him do the same.

MP
This is also great advice.
__________________
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1276302_n.jpg

I'd rather hunt fish than bait deer any day.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 10:10 AM
Frank Whiton's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 5,301
Frank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Frank Whiton
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

Hi vsyogi,

Are you using the Berkley Cherrywood rod that you bought for $7. If so you may have two problems. The rod damping (lack of) or you are over powering the forward cast. That is a low, low end rod and I suspect it is not helping you any.

You have only been fly casting a very short time and you may be jumping into double hauls too soon. When you don't try to haul are you getting good tight loops? Can you make a 40' cast with out hauling? You may need to improve your casting before you jump into double hauling.

If I am mistaking about your experience I am sorry. I seem to remember that you just recently caught your first fish with a fly rod. Do I have you mixed up with someone else?

Frank
__________________
Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 10:23 AM
sandfly's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grand canyon of Pa.
Posts: 1,079
sandfly is a splendid one to beholdsandfly is a splendid one to beholdsandfly is a splendid one to beholdsandfly is a splendid one to beholdsandfly is a splendid one to beholdsandfly is a splendid one to beholdsandfly is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

I agree with Frank on this, if you are still learning you have to be able to cast without hauling first. make sure you hold the line under you finger(s) on the cork and not in your other hand to produce nice tight loops. hard to explain without showing.
__________________
sandfly/ bob
(www.bigmeadowsflyshop.com)
N.J.B.B.A. #2215

I did not escape.....they gave me a day pass!
from the outer edge of nowhere
fly tying and fishing Gillie..
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:08 PM
BigCliff's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 4,313
BigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant future
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Whiton View Post
Hi vsyogi,

Are you using the Berkley Cherrywood rod that you bought for $7. If so you may have two problems. The rod damping (lack of) or you are over powering the forward cast. That is a low, low end rod and I suspect it is not helping you any.
Good Lord, if this is true then yes, you have outgrown your gear buddy.

Maybe I need a new disclaimer in my sig line: My casting advice doesn't apply to rods worth less than $50.
__________________
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1276302_n.jpg

I'd rather hunt fish than bait deer any day.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:52 PM
Super Moderator/Fly Swap Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,019
peregrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

Luis-

When going for distance a lot of folks tend to overpower the forward cast and dip the tip of the rod too far. Try for a smooth acceleration, keep the tip up, and haul smoothly and drift your hauling hand up- a sudden jerk, without drifting your hand up can cause shockwaves in the rod tip that ripple into waves in the fly line. More than strength or raw power, it's the smooth application of acceleration and "hard stops" on the forward and back cast that generate line speed. Drifting back a bit after a hard stop on the back cast may also give time for the line to straighten out behind you and help provide a smooth acceleration of power on the forward cast-- starting the forward cast fast and slowing will also cause waves in the fly line because the rod tip will start to bounce as it unloads. Better to start the forward cast a little slower and speed it up, ending with a hard stop, and drifting a bit on the backcast seems to help a lot of folks to do this. And it might be especially helpful with your rod since it probably has a slower "recovery" rate. ( the "recovery" rate is the time it takes for the rod to stop wiggling after you wiggle it. Modern high end graphite rods have a fast recovery transferring the energy to line speed, fiberglass rods tend to keep wiggling a bit transferring less energy to the fly line.) Those "SNAPS" mean you're cracking the whip--- not waiting long enough to let the line straighten out. Remember the more line you have out, the longer you'll have to wait before it straightens. If you have to start the cast too soon because the line is going to hit the water the cast is running out of gas- you have either too much line out for your stroke to carry in the air, are dipping the rod tip, or haven't come to a hard stop. Having someone watch and analyze your stroke is a great idea to give you feedback.

Here are two good links for the double haul- the first shows the basic motion, the second gets into more detail. Notice how smooth the casting stroke and the haul are and how the hauling hand drifts up to the casting hand after the haul.

http://www.sexyloops.com/beginners/d...aulbasic.shtml
http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/doublehaul.shtml

Just a couple of other things, since you're a little new to fly fishing and using a weight forward line, you'll find that the hauling will work better when you just have the first 30 feet or so outside the tip- this is the thick, heavy head of the fly line the rod is designed for. If you try hauling with more fly line out of the tip you'll run into some problems with the additional weight of more line and the thinner tapered fly line starting to hinge and causing waves in the fly line and the cast will start collapsing a bit. So for instance if you want to cast 60 feet, better to get 30 feet moving fast and shoot an additional 30 feet on the cast than to try and keep 50 feet in the air false casting and hauling to shoot 10. As your casting improves this will be less of an issue and you'll be able to carry more line in the air.

Keep at it, think smoooooth rather than power, and work on the fundamentals. Since you're new to this, you might want to try and get to 60 feet without hauling, just using the basic stroke, and try and hit 60 by reducing the number of false casts starting with 20 feet or so outside the tip. Try not to use the haul as a crutch to hit shorter distances unless the wind is howling. Once you can do this, start then start adding the hauls to get a bit further out.

Oh and keep those trip reports of yours coming!!!

mark
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 61
Blog Entries: 2
vsyogi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

Lol yes guys im using the berkley rod I bought for $7. Unfortunately it's the only thing I can afford right now as I havent been able to get a job and have been going to school. I'm pretty sure im able to cast at least that far without hauls, haven't measured them yet. I'll make sharpie marks every 30' of fly line to see how far I really get them. Frank- Yes Im the same kid who caught their first fish not to long ago. But I think lots of practice and help from others in my area have helped me out a lot. I havent gotten anyone to check out my fly rod or see whats wrong when doing double hauls but will do sometime this week. Randyflycaster- Thank you for the link will definitely check it out now.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 04:18 PM
Frank Whiton's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 5,301
Frank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Frank Whiton
Default Re: Double Hauls Or Rod?

Hi vsyogi,

I was pretty sure you had a recent post about your first fish.

If you are getting help then lets assume the problem is the rod. Make your hauls very short. No more than 6" and don't pull hard. What you need to learn is the timing. You have to make your hauls at the right time in the cast. Don't try for distance, try to get the timing right. Mark has given you some good advise.

You may have to face the fact that your rod is not going to be able to make a good double haul cast. I went back and looked at your post again. I think your problem is you don't have a good casting foundation yet and should be working on your cast instead of double hauling.

Frank
__________________
Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On














All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.