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Old 09-20-2009, 11:00 PM
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Default 8 wt. problems....

I was hoping to find some insight into a problem I just developed.

//Background// Have a med/fast 5 wt. rod that I absolutely love-- feels like my long lost twin....

In Kansas city, so mostly bass-ing. Picked up an 8 wt. that is a little (very little) slower action than my 5 wt.


When I cast it, I will hit the rod with my fly. (This only happens with bigger/ weighted flies-- ie #2 muddler pattern, bead head wooly, etc.) ((by the way, google search can not answer the question 'wolly' or 'wooly' or 'woolly'))

This doesn't seem to happen with my 5 wt. (which I am much more 'in tune' with) Timing problem? inherent in slow(er) action rods? Heavier line, possibly? Any and all input will be appreciated. Willing to try even hair-brained solutions. I've only fished the 8 wt. a half dozen times and this has happened just about every time.

Thanks wise ones.
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Old 09-21-2009, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Try slowing down your stroked. Be patient.
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Old 09-21-2009, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Hi raindogt,

I think a little more information would be helpful. What make and model is your 5wt and 8wt? What line are you using on the 8wt? How far can you cast the 8wt and do you hit the rod with every cast or only on longer cast? Are you hitting it only on the back cast or only on the fore cast or on both? When you cast do you hold the rod vertical.

I am sorry about all of the questions but since we can't see you cast this information will help figure out what is going on. You need to solve this problem. A hit from a big bead head can damage your rod.

Frank
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

It sounds to me like the weight of the larger flies is throwing off the tempo that you've developed with your 5 wt. and that your fly is dropping down before you start your forward cast (are you getting any tailing loops with your 8 wt.?).

I use a slower action rod for fishing Stripers (8 wt. or 9 wt.) and tossing 2/0-6/0 flies. I don't think that there's anything inherent in the slower action of your 8 wt. that should make it so that your fly collides with the tip section of your rod.

I agree with MP, first slow down your stroke and see if that makes a difference. Second, try double hauling to increase your line speed so that your fly doesn't drop at the end of your backcast. Third, try using an oval-shaped casting stroke; bring your backcast back at a 45 degree angle and move your forward cast forward at a 90 degree angle; or reverse them. I use the third solution for fishing rigs with multiple flies; dry/droppers and 2-3 fly nymph or wet fly set-ups; where I want to avoid tangling the flies.

What 8 wt. are you fishing with?
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Whiton View Post
Hi raindogt,

I think a little more information would be helpful. What make and model is your 5wt and 8wt? What line are you using on the 8wt? How far can you cast the 8wt and do you hit the rod with every cast or only on longer cast? Are you hitting it only on the back cast or only on the fore cast or on both? When you cast do you hold the rod vertical.

I am sorry about all of the questions but since we can't see you cast this information will help figure out what is going on. You need to solve this problem. A hit from a big bead head can damage your rod.

Frank
Thanks for the fast replies....

5 wt. is scientific anglers- not sure of model, and 8 wt. is a rod from quarrow, picked it up after reading reviews from this place. The line(s) that the 8 wt. get are an 8 wt. sinking tip, a 7 wt. floating, and a 9 wt. full sink (rarely)-- all of high-ish quality.

The contact only happens on the long casts, and only on the back cast. -- Long casts where I fish are about 50 ft.

vertical rod? not sure what you mean by vertical--this happens with overhead casts-- not sure if side arm is a problem-- don't side arm often.

Thanks again, for your time
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Without seeing your casting, its hard to diagnose the problem.

I can throw one simple trick out there that should at least reduce the problem: oval casting. Try making your back-cast very slightly sidearm and your forward cast more vertical. Don't make the cast oval enough to throw a big sweeping loop out behind you, just enough to where the forward and backward casting planes are parallel lines separated by 2' or so.

Another help might be to try shooting line for the last 15'+ on your final forward cast, instead of trying to carry so much line in the air.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Thanks, Cliff

I kind of do what you said simply because I don't like the 'thud' of a heavier fly with an acceleration and, then abrupt stop type of cast. What I do is more of a constant rounded out motion while keeping tension on the line.

There are lots of things that I am good at, but hauling twice isn't one of them . Maybe I ought to practice that as well. (Thanks for exposing one of my weaknesses, pocono )

shooting= letting the loop at my feet (or in the water) 'suck out' on my final false????

I usually gain about 30 or so feet in 3 false casts and on that last one, when I am about to let the line suck out is when the contact occurs (again not every time-- but I can tell you all that it surprises me every time, because everything 'feels' like it is going according to plan.)
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Quote:
Originally Posted by raindogt View Post
shooting= letting the loop at my feet (or in the water) 'suck out' on my final false????
"Shooting" as I described it is done on the final/delivery/presentation cast, not on one of the false casts. You may find that shooting on the final cast will work better when you have not fed quite as much line out during false casting. Some guys will actually figure out where the optimal amount of line out is to load the rod, and then darken a section of their line with a sharpie. Once that dark section is outside the guides, they know its time to shoot.

Roughly speaking, its best to shoot when you've got enough line out to feel the rod fully loaded, but not to where you're getting close to having any issues with the false casts turning all the way over or staying off the ground.

Doing at least a haul on the forward delivery will help with shooting, but isn't necessary. If you're going to start practicing hauliing, you might work on just hauling on the forward cast, instead of both directions.
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCliff View Post
"Shooting" as I described it is done on the final/delivery/presentation cast, not on one of the false casts. You may find that shooting on the final cast will work better when you have not fed quite as much line out during false casting. Some guys will actually figure out where the optimal amount of line out is to load the rod, and then darken a section of their line with a sharpie. Once that dark section is outside the guides, they know its time to shoot. //snip//

//snip//If you're going to start practicing hauliing, you might work on just hauling on the forward cast, instead of both directions.
I phrased my question about shooting poorly-- I should have specified on the forward cast of the final 'false cast' ie. load the rod tip (on the back cast) with 20 or so feet out, the loop of , say, 15 feet in the water, forward cast and the loop sucks out?

I can haul on the forward cast, as well as on the back cast-- just not in the same stroke. I should qualify that I 'can' haul-- to save my life, but not to win beauty pageants.

Thanks Again.

How would you all suggest practicing with something weighted-- this is not a problem with dry (#8 grasshopper pattern for example) flies. I don't want to ruin my new rod with a washer (or on the water with a fly) or something of the sort.

Just stop throwing heavier flies? (like the old joke: Doc it hurts when I do this.... Doctor says "well, don't do that".)
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: 8 wt. problems....

Raindogt,

Like Frank said, it is hard to know what is causing it without actually seeing a cast.

A guess would be that, since it is weighted, since the rod is a little soft and since it is always on the final backcast, that you are applying too much force too early in the final stroke and throwing a tailing loop.

But after reading this post: I am now not sure if it is your forward or back cast when the fly is hitting.

Quote:
I usually gain about 30 or so feet in 3 false casts and on that last one, when I am about to let the line suck out is when the contact occurs (again not every time-- but I can tell you all that it surprises me every time, because everything 'feels' like it is going according to plan.)
Either way, you must accelerate through the cast to the stop with no slack in the line when you start. If the fly is hitting high on the rod, lengthening your casting stroke and pause may help. If the fly is coming from behind you when it hits the rod, lowering the rod tip some after the stop may solve the problem.

The good news is that since you are hitting the rod, your "tracking" (as seen from above you looking down) is good.

Nothing beats a lesson though. Second best is a video of the cast.

Cheers,
Jim
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