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Old 03-24-2011, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

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i felt like my loops were better when doing this too. this a coincidence or good form?
It is not coincidence. When casting directly overhead, you eliminate all lateral miscalculations. For instance if your trajectory is a little off, your distance may be a little short or long, but it will be in a straight line to your target.

If casting on a 45 degree angle, distance will also be off, you will not be in a straight line to the target either. You will miss either right or left as well.

Basically,wiith direct overhead casting you have "removed" half the possibility for error. That is an oversimplification of course.

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Old 03-24-2011, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

Well, when casting on a more vertical plane, its generally easier to be accurate because the turnover is more in line horizontally with the direction of the cast.

With a more sidearm angle, the casts turns over in a sweep that's more parallel with the water's surface, and where the fly comes to rest is a bit harder to control.

When casting sidearm, its possible to give the fly a vertical turnover, but you have to add in what's commonly known as a curve cast. When performed on the vertical plane, I've also heard this one titled a "tough right hook". When tilted 90 degrees, it allows you to send a cast under overhanging brush or limbs, and then kick over vertically at the last minute to help it land right where you wanted.

Shortly before you stop on your forward stroke, roll your thumb slightly to the inside. In other words, after you've had your palm facing up while casting, finish the stroke by rolling your thumb up. Its tricky, and takes practice for sure, but its the best weapon I've got for getting a fly to where the big ones live.

Ed Jaworoski explains it better than I (though he's talking about casting in the vertical plane- Casting Curves | Fade your cast to the right or draw it to the left with these simple steps| 1
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

Tailing loops most often come from dropping the tip of the rod from its oroginal path on the end of a cast. Stop you cast on the horizontal plane of the end of the cast and dont let the tip move toward the ground (or down at the stop of the forward cast).
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

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Originally Posted by pegboy1 View Post
Tailing loops most often come from dropping the tip of the rod from its oroginal path on the end of a cast. Stop you cast on the horizontal plane of the end of the cast and dont let the tip move toward the ground (or down at the stop of the forward cast).
I'm afraid this is incorrect.

A tailing loop is caused by a concave path of the rod tip. What you've described adds a convex movement at the end of the cast.

By creating additional tension as the line is unrolling, it could turn a cast with a smooth turnover into a bounce cast that doesn't travel as far, but I see no way it could produce a tailing loop.

Your rods do look very appealing though.
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

Hi Everyone,

of Lefty talking about tailing loops.

Frank
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

There are a whole lot of reasons for tailing loops but, as Cliff said, dropping the tip of the rod from its oroginal path on the end of a cast is not one of them.

The most common causes result in a concave tip path as Cliff said. In order to HAVE a concave tip path, the rod tip must RISE at the end of the casting arc.

The most common causes of concave tip paths vary with the experience of the caster. For very experienced surf casters, for instance, the most common cause is too high a trajectory backcast (to get above the beach behind them) combined with too high a trajectory forward cast (to get the distance they need to reach fish). Most surf casters using full length lines are pushing the "180 degree rule" envelope with every cast. That's why most use shooting heads.

But for casters who are just rusty, but experienced, it is usually too early an application of force either with rod rotation or the haul or both - when going for more distance. They "hit" the cast too early in the stroke and cannot continue acceleratinig fast enough to prevent the rod from unloading too soon. So the rod begins to "unload" (straighten) while they are still rotating the rod through the cast.

This causes the concave tip path Cliff was talking about. And this is likely what the original poster was doing. If you start slow and accelerate the rotation through the cast, hauling late in the stroke, this will not happen. On distance casts, the rod tip will deflect downward to such a degree that it will nearly hit the ground in a 170 degree cast, as shown in the pic below of a 1950's world distance champion caster. He is not setting the hook there, he has just released the line on his forward presentation cast.

Click the image to open in full size.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

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Originally Posted by BigCliff View Post
I'm afraid this is incorrect.

A tailing loop is caused by a concave path of the rod tip. What you've described adds a convex movement at the end of the cast.

By creating additional tension as the line is unrolling, it could turn a cast with a smooth turnover into a bounce cast that doesn't travel as far, but I see no way it could produce a tailing loop.

Your rods do look very appealing though.
Appears as though lefty is talking about the tip tailing down...no?

my statement "Stop you cast on the horizontal plane of the end of the cast and dont let the tip move toward the ground (or down at the stop of the forward cast)."

maybe my wording isnt quite on.....

---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

Tailing Loops - description and cure

"If the tip dips under the SLP (straight line path) then you will throw a Tailing Loop."
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

I have no idea what Lefty is talking about other than moving the rod hand in a horizontal position.

If you look at the video you will see that when he demonstrated throwing a tailing loop himself, he stopped the rod much higher after exerting much more force than in any of his other casts which did not tail. This caused the rod tip to RISE above the straight line tip path at the end of the cast.

Look at the position of the rod tip when he is demonstrating how to cast WITHOUT tailing loops. It is perfectly horizintal to the ground. He may simply have gotten his working backwards in that video, I don't know.

One thing for certain, he does NOT shock the rod when NOT throwing tailing loops and he DOES stop the rod tip lower.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

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Originally Posted by rjackh View Post
hanks for the tips guys. i practiced again yesterday while concentrating on being as smooth as possible and it really helped a lot. i think my main problem was that i was trying to muscle it way too much. i know this is off topic for this thread, but my next issue now is accuracy. anyone have tips to improve accuracy? one thing i noticed yesterday was the more overhanded i casted (that is the less side arm i casted) the more accurate i was. i felt like my loops were better when doing this too. this a coincidence or good form?
Zero muscle involved in casting a fly rod. I've been a surfcaster since I was a toddler. I've been flyfishing for about 8 years now and I still fight the urge to muscle my casts. As far as accuracy goes, when I get some I'll let you know where I found it.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: throwing tailing loops like crazy

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Originally Posted by pegboy1 View Post
[/COLOR]Tailing Loops - description and cure

"If the tip dips under the SLP (straight line path) then you will throw a Tailing Loop."
Here's an illustration of what they're describing-

Click the image to open in full size.

See what I'm referring to by "concave path of the rod tip"?

The "tail" in "tailing loop" refers to the shape of the loop, not what is done with the rod after the forward cast is complete.

Any small movement made with the rod after the stop on the forward cast will not affect how the loop unrolls. A "reach cast" will reposition the line nearer the rod tip, but it will not affect how the loop unrolls. What you originally described is functionally a "reach cast" but the reach is on the vertical plane rather than the traditional horizontal plane.

First cast seen is a reach cast-

YouTube - Fly Casting Instruction :: Roll casts, Curve casts and more! :: Cast that Catch Fish
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