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Old 05-18-2010, 09:30 AM
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Default Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

Hate to be a pain in the butt asking all these questions ,but you guys have cleared up so many issues all ready I can't help myself. Here goes line wt. as to rod loading. I am reading that it is better to use a line wt, that is one size bigger than what the rated rod wt. is in order to load the rod tip better (ie: 9wt. rod rating using a 10wt. fly line) or is it better to use the same line wt. as the rod rating? I know all equipment has it's limits , but will one size bigger help or hinder the casting performance of the rig?
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

I truly enjoy fishing true weight rods using the line they are rated for.
If you are doing a lot of close range work and have trouble loading the road up close, overlining will help.
I can't think of any other good reason to overline a rod.
Understand that once overlined, the rod may not take kindly to any sort of distance casts as it'll probably be over-worked.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass_man View Post
Hate to be a pain in the butt asking all these questions ,but you guys have cleared up so many issues all ready I can't help myself. Here goes line wt. as to rod loading. I am reading that it is better to use a line wt, that is one size bigger than what the rated rod wt. is in order to load the rod tip better (ie: 9wt. rod rating using a 10wt. fly line)
Actually uplining causes the rod to flex deeper into the rod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass_man View Post
...or is it better to use the same line wt. as the rod rating?
Uplining is just a way to fine tune the performance of the rod. Some rods will work best with a matching line weight. Some will perform better uplined. This will depend on the caster's preferences. For example, I use a fast action 5 weight rod. I like casting it with a 5.5 weight rated line. One of my friends likes his with a 5 weight line.

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Originally Posted by bass_man View Post
I know all equipment has it's limits , but will one size bigger help or hinder the casting performance of the rig?
One size uplined will either help or hinder the performance of the rig depending on the caster's preferences.

It is very common to see rods loaded one, two, sometimes three line weights uplined. Most people who upline by one usually want to slow the rod down to match their own strokes. People who use shooting heads commonly upline by two to get more power out of the butt end of the rod to throw out longer casts sometimes over 100 feet. A lot of bass anglers (at least in Northern California) will upline their rods by three line weights to slow down their rods to open up their loops to throw some highly wind resistant flies. Before Sage came out with the BASS series of rods, Captain Kevin Doran (a California Delta guide) used a 7 weight Sage XP with a 10 weight Rio Bass line as his boat rods.

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Old 05-18-2010, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

Jackster is right on. The answer is "it depends".

If you're throwing big stuff and don't need to throw over 45', a 10wt may be better. Longer casts with smaller stuff, I'd stick with the 9wt.
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

I was tying 9", 3/0 poppers this morning
I plan on throwing them with a 9wt rod, 12wt line. We'll see how it goes

Cliff, I made one from one of those synthetic wine corks. That one needed to ride a 4/0
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

The overlining topic is one that comes up all the time, and is very confusing for nearly everyone. WF lines are labeled according to the weight of the first 30 feet of line. So, for the average caster using a rod that is "accurately" labeled that rod will perform best with 30' of line out the tip top. But the rod makers do not have any standardized method of measuring the rods to determine what weight line should perform best under a certain set of circumstances.

So there is no such thing as "acrurately labeled rods", "average" casters, or identical WF lines across even a single manufacturer's line of rods.

When using shooting head lines of only 35' with mono or braided running line spliced to it, surf casters will often "upline" a rod because they are limited to how much line they can carry out of the tip top while casting. Most of them talk in terms of "grains of weight" instead of the rod #weight.

But for "regular" (integrated) full-length lines ( fairly short-headed WF line), for every 6 to 8 feet of line beyond 30' that the caster has out the tip-top adds the equivalent of one line weight worth of line load to the rod.

To further confuse the issue, what the rod manufacturers label their rods (as far as line weight rating is concerned) is all over the board.

If Jackster is using an Echo, Sage tcr or tcx, or some of the TFO rods, to name just a few, by using the exact line rating on the rod, he could well be "underlining" the rod by two or three weights according to an independent rod rating method. But he adjusts for that, like most of us, by carrying more line in the air.

So there really is no answer to your question.

I agree with Jackster and Cliff's preference of not uplining rods, but I suspect that both are accomplished casters and can carry a lot of line comfortably. My own feeling is that, in general, uplining may tend to stunt casting improvement, and that carrying a lot of line in the air is the best way to improve ones casting abilities. I don't really subcri

I think the best way for you to figure it out is to get into a club where there are a number of guys with a number of reels loaded with a variety of tapers, weights and so on, and try them out. Much too, will depend on the type of fishing you do. Little streams, rivers with high banks, from a kayak or canoe or on open water either wading or from a boat you can stand up in.

Good luck. It's a lifetime adventure.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post
I was tying 9", 3/0 poppers this morning
I plan on throwing them with a 9wt rod, 12wt line. We'll see how it goes

Cliff, I made one from one of those synthetic wine corks. That one needed to ride a 4/0
I'd love to see pics of those if ya got the gumption Rip.

This is all very interesting.

I have nothing to go on but "feel" but my 5wt with 5wt line sure doesn't seem to load like it should "feel" to me. I never understood the differences in line until I came here. I'll try running a 6 or 7 on it and see how she does. I fish a lot of clear waters and pressured fish so cast distance for me is the difference btw catching and casting.
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

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I'd love to see pics of those if ya got the gumption Rip.

Sorry, my son tells me that the only camera in the house that works is "missing"
He's a good boy, very responsible
I'm trying to copy these new Pole Dancer poppers. They retail $12-$24 and I "need" to know that I can make one just as good.
So far it's been a challenge.
Mine look nothing like these

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

Premium rods will be closer to the fly line weight than cheaper rods. Also, I've found that certain rods might like line "X" and hate line "Y" and "Z". All are the same weight lines, but the rod prefers one brand over others and casts and fishes it better. Before over or underlining a rod, I would get as many line brands or different series lines of the same weight as the rod makers suggests, and try them to find out which one(s) suits the rod.

FWIW, I haven't found one rod I have in 4,5, and 6w's that doesn't love Sharkskin. Glass, bamboo or graphite.
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Fly Line Wt. to load rod question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post
Sorry, my son tells me that the only camera in the house that works is "missing"
He's a good boy, very responsible
I'm trying to copy these new Pole Dancer poppers. They retail $12-$24 and I "need" to know that I can make one just as good.
So far it's been a challenge.
Mine look nothing like these

Click the image to open in full size.
I talked to Charlie Bisharat at the shop today. We had an interesting conversation about his Pole Dancers.
- To throw the 5/0 Pole Dancer, he uses a 9 weight rod with an 11 weight Rio Outbound Short. The 11 weight Rio Outbound Short is actually a 13 weight line.
- If you want to throw the 5/0 Pole Dancer in the tropical saltwater, a 10 weight rod with a 12 weight Rio Tropical Outbound Short. The 12 weight Rio Tropical Outbound Short is actually a 14 weight line. My guess is that Simon and the guys at Rio are working on a 12 weight coldwater Rio Outbound Short.
- For leader, Charlie prefers a 40 pound test tippet loop knotted to the 5/0 Pole Dancer.

MP

Last edited by MoscaPescador; 05-18-2010 at 09:35 PM. Reason: grammar
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