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Old 06-06-2011, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Creep

Here's a video (Jamie Lyle) casting a Sage Z-Axis at less than olympic distance, but using the same method of drift as Joan Wulff (drift for "normal" casting distances). Wait until about the 30 second mark, and you'll see how he changes his cast:
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Creep

I also struggle with creep. It's a bad habit that's hard to break. I really have to concentrate not to do it, as I haven't found any magic fix.

I do not, however, drift the rod back until more than half the line unrolls.
If I immediately drift the rod back I add slack to the line.

Randy
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Creep

Randy,

Have you ever taken any videos of your casting?

I've only taken a few, starting about a year ago, but have learned a bunch about what I do right and wrong. The fishing I do is oriented more toward distance and getting off a cast quickly than freshwater. Even short casts are often distance cast efforts because of the incessant trades which blow almost non-stop down here from December through 2nd week of May - this year unil yesterday (hopefully).

So I gravitated toward a website forum filled with world class distance competitors, physicists, engineers, master casting instructors and discovered that nearly all of them take videos constantly - often with expensive slo motion cameras in conjunction with Bruce Richards' casting analyser. It's a machine with sensors on the rod that measures strain, angular acceleration/decelleration, casting stroke length etc. It then prints out a graph of the cast.

So I figured that if the top distance casters and master casting instructors, rod designers and authors of casting books (and videos) are doing it, there must be some benefits to it.

Just a thought.

PS: When I try to change something in my cast, I find it is much easier to do it if I pantomime the action, or sequence of actions without a rod numerous times, eyes open and closed, whille visualizing the results.

Cheers,
Jim

Last edited by wjc; 06-06-2011 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Edit in red.
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Creep

Thanks Jim. I don't have a video. I think my solution is simple, but also hard, like a batter stepping in the bucket or taking his eye off the ball and finding himself in a slump.

I think I started creeping when I got into spey casting - creeping is a big problem for spey casters - and I had to concentrate on many techniques, all at the same time.

I'm sure I can break the habit with a lot of practice, but I just don't have the time.

IMHO, I feel casting problems often get over-analyzed, and then the solutions get too complicated and make everything worse.

Randy

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------

BTW, for me, the beauty of long-distance casting is that I don't have all the answers, that I always have to keep striving and more will be revealed; and even then - well, I guess the ideal long-distance cast is like an ideal golf swing: we never quite get there, but we always keep trying.

Randy
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Old 06-06-2011, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Creep

I also has my cast analyzed about 10 years ago with Sage Casting Anayzer I was surprised to find that I had some creep just before my forward casting motion. I tried to practice a few casts to correct the creep and then tried the analyzer again.

What I found was that the good points of my cast got worse when I concentrating on correcting the rod creep. My cast was worse overall. It is very difficult to change a casting motion when you have casted a certain way for years and years.
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Creep

Quote:
It is very difficult to change a casting motion when you have casted a certain way for years and years.
Silver, that's true. Nowdays, there are casting instructors all over the place who have been trained to spot faults. It's also the reason why so many people recommend that newcomers start off with a lesson - to catch those ideosyncracies early before they become ingrained muscle memory.

Without watching a video of your casting, it would be hard to say if your creep is really detrimental to your cast or an actual casting technique which would/could show up on the analyser as creep.

Here's a quote from George Roberts' article on "slide loading". The below quote is from his discussion of "slide loading" taken a step further.

Quote:
However, when you begin your forward stroke, you should continue to shoot running line through the fingers of your line hand.
I discovered through a video (combined with an LED hooked up to a microswitch held in my line hand to determine the exact time of release) that I have been doing exactly what he's talking about for well over 30 years, maybe over 40. When I consciously tried casting this way after reading his article, I couldn't do it and dumped the casts. Only when casting normally, did the video with the light hooked up show I was already doing it.

I am pretty sure the casting analyser would show creep - however, that creep would occur with a rod at an angle lower than the "efficient" casting arc.

Definitions are a big problem with anything as dynamic as fly casting and constantly argued about by the best fly casters on the planet. But no matter what the definitions, or what are defined as faults, there will be casters using "faults" to their advantage - like Steve Rajeff. The European distance casters call Steve Rajeff's method of distance casting the "Rajeff Whiplash technique" not the "Rajeff Creep then explosive Drift" technique.

Just something to think about.

Quote:
IMHO, I feel casting problems often get over-analyzed
Randy, I resemble that remark!!

Cheers,
Jim
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