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The Fly Cast Discuss fly casting with the expert, ask for help, learn to cast farther, increase your accuracy, troubleshoot your cast.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

I'd try up lining the rod by one or two sizes or another line . I tried both the rio steelhead line and and SA nypmh line, both in 7wt on my 6wt nymph rod before I decided on my line. I went with the SA nymph line, it just cast better for me. On my 7wt nymph rod I have run the rio steelhead in 9wt(I was given) and it performs realy nice on it with a heavy rig on the end of the line, I'd also like to try an 8wt SA nymph line on the same 7wt rod to see how it works. I'm no expert but I like playing with different lines with my rods and this is whats worked for me on rods tossing similar nymph rigs you are. I'm not trying to cast 80' with these though.....

Last edited by wishiniwerfishin; 12-29-2011 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

Are you trying to shoot the line? Like a double haul? I wouldn't ever try and double haul a nymph rig, you're asking for trouble right there. You should try and master the roll cast to cast that stuff, or try using the water to load the rod for you at the end of your drift to flip the fly back upstream.

Try taking off the bobber, and 2 nymphs and try just casting 1 streamer or something. That heavy and complicated rig is asking for trouble when you're trying to reach 80-100'.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

That set up isn't exactly cut out for distance casting without a world of headaches and tangles.
Cast all that junk within a reasonable fishing range and take the extra stuff off for distance work.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

That is exactly as it seems, clunky. Anyone have a good video of how to roll cast it from a downstream position to upstream? I mostly use a 1 handed spey2 which gets me back upstream, but even then it does not roll out the way id like. I am very novice is it pertains to those types of cast, but feel pretty good about my OH casts. Thank you!
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

I'm no expert, but I use a similar rig when fishing at Lee's Ferry, and I know that the indicator limits my casting distance most days. I think it's a combination of having 'weight' concentrated beyond the line itself (got this piece of info from a more experienced angler recently), as well as the aerodynamic drag associated with the bobber. The fly itself shouldn't make a difference, unless you tie on something heavy, like a clouser minnow.

I would try casting the rig without the bobber and see if you still have problems with distance and tailing. If not, then you know it's the bobber.

As to how to get more distance with the bobber, I can't really help with that. There have been times when i miraculously hurled the rig 50 ft., but i could probably count the number of times I managed that on one hand. probably 99% of the time I only can reliably cast the rig about 30 ft.

My cure for tailing loops with this set up is to use a pick up lay down type of cast with an open loop/no loop, or a modified belgian type cast. For me, this tends to limit the 'bolo-ing' effect, and consequently reduces tailing.

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Old 01-10-2012, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

Thank you all for this thread *takes notes*
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhflyfisher View Post
Are you trying to shoot the line? Like a double haul? I wouldn't ever try and double haul a nymph rig, you're asking for trouble right there. You should try and master the roll cast to cast that stuff, or try using the water to load the rod for you at the end of your drift to flip the fly back upstream.
I'll add one more variable and that is the fly rod. Adding all that stuff adds mass. It could be that you have a medium flex rod that is fine for casting line plus a several flies but when you add up all that non-linear mass, the rod cannot handle it.

You have several problem with all that stuff on the line. False casting and the normal way of extending line don't work. You can't control that thingamabobber and the nymphs. There is mass and there is non-linear mass. A heavier line can still be cast because the mass is evenly distributed along the line. A thingamabobber and heavy nymphs are point sources of mass that disrupt the flow of a cast.

So if you can't add rod load by repeated false casts and lengthening line. You need to increase the load another way and you need to get the momentum or inertia of the line, thingamabobber, and nymphs at about 180 degrees from where you want the cast to land.

The way you do that is as bhflyfsiher suggested - a water tension cast. You want to use the force of the water flowing downstream to pull against the fly line, thingamabobber, and nymphs. This resistance of the water pulling downstream, creates extra tension to create an extra load on the rod for the upstream cast. You need to create as much downstream resistance as possible to load the rod for an upstream cast. Does that make sense?

At the end of you drift, point your rod downstream at your line and allow the line, indicator and nymphs to straighten downstream. The amount of line that is down stream will determine the extra load BUT it also determines how far the cast will go. If you have too much line, you will not be able to cast it all upstream even with the extra water load. If you have too little, you are limiting the distance cast. So you need to titrate the amount of line, meaning you need to experiment to see what is the optimum amount of amount of line for the maximum load you can use.

In a single smooth motion, cast the line toward your target. Make sure the loop is wide enough so that you don't hit your rod with the indicator or flies. That would be bad. Try a wide loop first and then you can narrow it as you get better at the cast.

The cast is best done at 180 degrees from the the downstream line position. Sometimes the downstream line position will be such that you cannot cast upstream to the point you want to. You can then make the upstream cast as best you can, then immediately pick up and cast back downstream to where your need to to make another upstream cast to your target.

Secondly, you can haul and shoot line on this cast. The amount of line you shoot varies with how effective you are with the water load and the haul.

The effectiveness of the cast varies with the fly rod you are using. Depending on the weight being cast, some fly rods will wimp out. They will not be stiff enough to propel the cast. So give it a try but be careful you do not over stress your fly rod.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Fly cast without flies is great, but...

I didnt read all the other longer and more informative posts, but just from the mention of thingamabobber....those lads are not meant for distance casting. they're for drifting or high sticking with very short lines.
Trying to throw one of those 80', is going to end in trouble as you've experienced.
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