The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > The Fly Cast

The Fly Cast Discuss fly casting with the expert, ask for help, learn to cast farther, increase your accuracy, troubleshoot your cast.

Like Tree1Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 09:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 181
pegboy1 has a spectacular aura aboutpegboy1 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

Looks like a pretty decent stroke to me (better than many). I would try a WF line and see if it helps.
__________________
FP
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 12:38 PM
flyfisher117's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 381
Blog Entries: 1
flyfisher117 will become famous soon enoughflyfisher117 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to flyfisher117
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

Ill update when I get the new line and see if its different.
__________________
"A good cast is like a good whiskey- It's smooth and hits the spot" -Anonymous fly fishing guide
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 01:40 PM
ausablebrown's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 853
ausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

I cast the GVX for a few minutes up at the shop in (my favorite) the 4wt. It is a faster rod still, but even the faster 3wts I've cast still need a little time to bend. The are very delicate by comparison to the same rod in a 4 or 5. I agree with Davo...though I can't see what your line is doing after your back casts it looks like your horsing it, especially on the back-cast moreso than the forward cast. If you don't get a slow steady acceleration as you pull the line backwards you will have line bunched up and wavy in mid-air, rather than unrolled in a nice plane straight backwards. Try concentrating on a slow start, increasing in speed as you back cast, and the same on your forward cast. Be deliberate about it, if you err on the too slow side you will know it, your line will start to hit the ground behind you.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:42 PM
flyfisher117's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 381
Blog Entries: 1
flyfisher117 will become famous soon enoughflyfisher117 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to flyfisher117
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

Heres my update, I'm frustrated.

The new line is an improvement, the rod definately feels like it is loading more (i can feel it a lot better than before) I am able to get a bit more distance (I was hitting the bushes behind me that I hit with the 5wt)

But I am having an extemely hard time adjusting to the action. I try nice steady slower paced start, accelerating, stopping, then as I feel the rod loading I start my nice start again slowly accelrating and I cant keep the line up off the ground, its loosing all of its momentum and energy.

I try speeding it up a bit (while keeping slower start with acceleration) and just get a wavy blob of line, still feel like I am trying to force the rod. How do I get more speed without forcing the rod? The rod just feels so noodley that I think im trying to make up for it in strength (even though if I try to let the rod do the work I cant keep the line off the ground.)

I wish I could take a class (or get a good video camera), Ive had no formal training its all just been my own time on the river with trial and error and the desire to hit that pocket of fish that is just a bit out of my casting range. Im so used to my big fat beefy 5wt that I can force a bit and really get the line to go that I cant find the speed for the 3wt.
__________________
"A good cast is like a good whiskey- It's smooth and hits the spot" -Anonymous fly fishing guide
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:00 PM
ausablebrown's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 853
ausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher117 View Post
Heres my update, I'm frustrated.

The new line is an improvement, the rod definately feels like it is loading more (i can feel it a lot better than before) I am able to get a bit more distance (I was hitting the bushes behind me that I hit with the 5wt)

But I am having an extemely hard time adjusting to the action. I try nice steady slower paced start, accelerating, stopping, then as I feel the rod loading I start my nice start again slowly accelrating and I cant keep the line up off the ground, its loosing all of its momentum and energy.

I try speeding it up a bit (while keeping slower start with acceleration) and just get a wavy blob of line, still feel like I am trying to force the rod. How do I get more speed without forcing the rod? The rod just feels so noodley that I think im trying to make up for it in strength (even though if I try to let the rod do the work I cant keep the line off the ground.)

I wish I could take a class (or get a good video camera), Ive had no formal training its all just been my own time on the river with trial and error and the desire to hit that pocket of fish that is just a bit out of my casting range. Im so used to my big fat beefy 5wt that I can force a bit and really get the line to go that I cant find the speed for the 3wt.
You will be able to keep the line off of the ground on the back-cast with a well timed haul; it is a little difficult to learn the timing but it pays great dividends. Experiment with your haul timing; maybe you are pulling with your line hand a little too early or too late. And don't get too frustrated, it WILL click one of these times. I also am a self taught caster and I hate to give you bad news, but I was a pretty terrible caster for at least 2 seasons, then the trial and error, lawn casting, and muscle memory started to pay off. Keep parousing youtube casting videos, there is alot of free casting lessons on there. Not really a replacement for a one on one session, but you will figure some things out by watching others do it the right way.

I just went back and watched your casting video and your haul does look erattic; sometimes you are following your rod hand back with your line hand, other times you are pulling the line hand away from the rod hand...different speeds to your line hand movement also. That might be the problem, at least in part.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:31 PM
mojo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Yewta
Posts: 2,124
mojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant future
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

Ausablebrown mentions an eratic haul. I'm seeing pretty much a non-existant haul. Bring your left hand closer to the rod and pull it down to where you're at in the video.
That's what I'm seeing for a start.
__________________
Life is not like a bowl of cherries. It's more like a jar of ghost peppers. What you eat today might burn your ass tomorrow...
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:40 PM
ausablebrown's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 853
ausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to beholdausablebrown is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
Ausablebrown mentions an eratic haul. I'm seeing pretty much a non-existant haul. Bring your left hand closer to the rod and pull it down to where you're at in the video.
That's what I'm seeing for a start.
Yeah, I guess that's more clear...many times you are following your rod hand with your line hand...not getting any haul that way. Other casts it was short and choppy.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2012, 09:35 PM
Jackster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,643
Jackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant future
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

Looking at your video it seems you have a very nice basic cast to work with. You have what looks to be real good straight line path. That right there is a pain for many to achieve. The power application you use seems quite good if not a bit too early with max power at times.
Your haul... There is not really have much of a haul that I can see. Every so often I see your line hand going up to a great position to begin a haul but alas, you were simply gathering up line for another cast.
Try pantomiming the haul without a rod in your hand. Double Haul Basics Remember... clean, slick line and quite a bit of line mass out past the line tip will really aid in the 'up' portion of the double haul where you have to feed line back into the cast. If line doesn't feed back easily in the 'up' portion of the double haul you're just inviting frustration.

One thing you do is worse than scratching a chalk board to me, that is stripping line while false casting as you did when you went to the 5 weight video section at about 2:40 in. The angle your fly line takes from the spool to your line hand is an extreme turn and wreaks havok on the fly line because of the extreme, tensioned turn the line has to make but also, the friction created can actually gouge divots in the line gaurd on the reel. I can show you a Hardy with a divoted line guard from a friend borrowing the reel for a short time. Strip off the line you need then cast, it could save you gear damge.

Last edited by Jackster; 05-08-2012 at 07:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2012, 02:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,032
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

I have a few comments,

1. Way too many false casts. Every time you false cast, there is an opportunity to introduce a timing error that may causes a tailing loop, line sag, etc.

2. Stroke path, length of stroke and timing are almost identical from cast to cast. That tells me that you are not lengthening your casts very much between strokes. It also tell me that you are not adding much energy with each false cast. The purpose of a false cast is to either add length OR change direction and you are not doing either. This has to improve to add distance.

Try to improve by lengthening the stroke path and acceleration with every cast, not only on the forward cast but the back cast as well. You can do this even without a double haul.

3. You start each cast with the rod position way too high. For example at 1:40 min you end one cast with the rod held at about 10:00 but you never follow the line down to the water. Your then take in line, but instead of stripping the line with the rod tip at the water; you strip the line in and at 2:00 min you begin the next cast with the rod at 10:00.

That line sag from the rod tip to the water is a big energy waster. So follow the line to the water and begin every cast with the fly line straight on the water (remove all slack). This alone will improve your cast. Report back and tell me how this single change made a difference.

4. As Jackster said learn to double haul and initially make the hauls short enough so you can feed the line back. Long hauls will cause beginners to be unable to feed all the lines back and they will mess up the timing. Begin with about 12 inch hauls.

5. Do not let go of the line when you shoot line. The Tom Rosenbauer illustration shows the caster letting of of the line, but this is only when you want the maximum distance. Shoot line through an "O" ring made with your fingers of your line hand as shown below:

http://fishfliesandwater.com/2011/06...shooting-line/

6. When your learn to double haul and shoot line, you will be shooting line on the forward cast alone. 99.99% of caster do this. If you really want to cast far in the shortest number of false cast, shoot line on the backcast and the forward cast.

7. Here are some videos and articles to give you a start:



Joan Wulff: The Double Haul

Tom Rosenbauer Double Haul
__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

Last edited by silver creek; 05-08-2012 at 03:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2012, 11:36 PM
flyfisher117's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 381
Blog Entries: 1
flyfisher117 will become famous soon enoughflyfisher117 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to flyfisher117
Default Re: Should I be able to cast my 3wt as far as my 5wt?

The Orvis guy mentions the little flick of the wrist, is this the same power snap that Joan Wulff is referring to? I was told that you dont want to use any wrist but while testing the new line I actually experimented and tried doing a little "snap" thing and it seemed to help, I dont know how to explain what I was doing, kind of like I had a drop of water on the end of the rod and I was trying to flick off with very minimal movement after the very short flick i stopped to wait for the line to straighten out. It seemed to help with the front cast but I couldn't get it to do anything with the rear cast so I quit.

Also will grass work just as well as water to practice? I like the run off pond because its right by the house and I can get the line wet, I dont know if it does but Ive always felt I can cast better with more ease on the water becasue its getting on the guides and such. I might have to go to the football field and try casting a bit. Then I can also get a more accurate reading of how far im actually casting.

#1: I was trying to just form nice loops and maintain them, Ill try to keep it to 4 or 5 false casts and see if that changes anything.

#2: How does one add more energy without forcing the rod? Is this where I need my Hauls? And is it more line that is added longer the stroke?

#3: Ahh theres one of my bad habits I KNOW I do quite often, never had anyone tell me it was bad, guess that explains why I can never waterload much line without it either trying to all pile up in my face or just flop around like a fish out of water. Ill for sure be trying this next time Im at the water.

#4: My biggest problem with the double haul, they also say this in the videos but its like trying to pat my head and rub my belly. I cant get the rhythm down without focusing really hard, I can usually get it going back but when I go forward I always seem to forget to get my line hand to go back up and "reset" getting ready to go backwards again. By the time I remember its too late the line is either straight and falling down or I've started another back cast. What would be a good line length past the rod tip to practice getting the rhythm down?

#5: I try not to but there is times where I let go without thinking.

Ill try to get up to the field tomorrow and try a few of these things.
__________________
"A good cast is like a good whiskey- It's smooth and hits the spot" -Anonymous fly fishing guide
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How far can you cast? Hardyreels Forum Polls 121 10-09-2013 06:36 PM
How does an Overhead Two Handed cast differ from a Spey or Switch cast? floorabove The Fly Cast 14 05-29-2012 04:01 AM
Difference between a Roll Cast and a Standard Cast silver creek The Fly Cast 1 10-07-2011 11:41 AM
Tuck Cast, Pile Cast Causing Tangles? randyflycaster General Discussion 3 07-15-2011 03:59 PM
The Fly Cast dougm General Discussion 6 01-21-2005 01:40 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.