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-   -   Always throw a hook or tuck cast (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-cast/302902-always-throw-hook-tuck-cast.html)

turbineblade 11-20-2012 04:03 PM

Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Hey, I notice that though my casting is leaps and bounds better now than when I started, I tend to throw casts such that the line runs out of "leash" and whips at the end. With a straight overhead, I throw the tuck cast. With a side cast, it curves to the left. Sometimes it does it more than others, but it seems to be there quite a bit.

What do I do to correct this? Let more line out? Cast more gently or something? Stick with it and learn to throw more to the right on my side casts :)..?

Granted that this doesn't affect my fishing too badly because I catch fish once I get my flies into the water...but it's annoying and I know I could be doing better on my casts.

Actually, my casting is the most challenging thing with fly fishing having come into this from pretty heavy ultralight spin fishing (mostly bluegill). I feel like I can "fish" with my flies/lures, but the casting was tough to learn!!:)

Thanks,

noreaster 11-20-2012 04:19 PM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
You could try focusing more weight on your opposing leg. It will give you more sensitivity and maybe more control in your rod arm if you can find your comfort zone. If your right handed then put 70% of your weight on your left leg 30% on your right.

cheers

wt bash 11-20-2012 04:24 PM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
I'd say back off the power and stop the rod sooner on the forward stroke.

Jackster 11-20-2012 04:44 PM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Without seeing your cast it might be too much power.
Too much power can cause all sorts of problems. Too little power just makes the line dribble. Try less and less power until your line lands too relaxed then add just enough power to just straighten the line at about belly button level at the distance your shooting for.

Generally, the line will follow the rod tip. What you are probably experiencing is the rod tip overbending at the stop with the line following that motion.

mcnerney 11-20-2012 08:40 PM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Turbineblade: Take a look at this video by Peter Kutzer on "The Curve Cast", it might answer your question why when you are side casting the fly lands to the left.
Tuesday Tip: The Curve Cast

turbineblade 11-21-2012 04:15 AM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Okay, I think what I'm doing is like the guy in the video and simply overpowering the cast for the amount of line I have out.

Thanks!

TB

wjc 11-21-2012 05:29 AM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Good post and a good video, Larry.

Turbiine, that's why you'll see all the professional casters in accuracy casting competitions casting with the rod directly vertical.

mcnerney 11-21-2012 05:49 AM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wjc (Post 500284)
Good post and a good video, Larry.

Turbiine, that's why you'll see all the professional casters in accuracy casting competitions casting with the rod directly vertical.

Jim: Thanks, I just happened to view that video the other day, as I was interested in how to make a curve cast. I was hoping you would see this post and offer some advice as you are way more knowledgeable on casting then I ever will be.

Larry

silver creek 11-21-2012 01:01 PM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnerney (Post 500198)
Turbineblade: Take a look at this video by Peter Kutzer on "The Curve Cast".

Tuesday Tip: The Curve Cast

Pete demonstrates two ways to curve the cast around the hula hoops. The first is the overpowered cast which is why turbineblade's casts are curving. This is why he casts a tuck cast when he does it in the vertical plane.

Jackster's solution is correct in that you need to back off on the power. This fine tuning the power you need to the cast you want to make. Right now you don't have the muscle memory and "feel" needed to match the distance to the power. I comes with time. I bet you can throw a football to a spot accurately. That is because you have been throwing your whole life. Or if you play golf, hitting a chip shot to a spot. Or in my case, hitting a tennis forehand into a corner. So practice to develop that feel.

Going back to the curve cast video, the third method (at 2:25) Pete uses, is to add a hook or what he calls a "twist". A hook is when you change the path of the rod tip just before the stop. Since the fly line follow the rod tip, if the rod tip hooks to the right just before the stop, the fly line will hook to the right. Anatomically, he is pronating his hand. This is a clockwise rotation of the wrist for a right hander as you look down your arm. It is the motion you use twist the key to start your car. Because you are twisting as your rod and is moving forward just before the stop, the rod tip hooks to the left. Hence the fly line hooks to the left.

A better way to make a curve cast was published in 1980 by Bob Pelzl and Gary Borger on pg. 58 of the 1980 Early Season issue of Fly Fisherman Magazine titled "Corkscrew Curve Cast". Now we have video so you can see Jason Borger demonstrating this cast.

Look at these two videos of Jason Borger doing the corkscrew curve cast. Because he adds the corkscrew before the stop, the curve is place in the fly line at the leader. Look at both videos - on the second one you can see the end of the fly line curving to the left.

http://jasonborger.com/2009/02/24/corkscrew-curve-vids/

Now here is what confuses even seasoned casters.

Before the stop, Jason moves the rod tip to the left and then in a semicircle (corkscrew) to the right. He is producing a two pulses, first to the left then to the right that travel down the fly line.

Here are two illustrations from the original article:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...Corkscrew1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...Corkscrew2.jpg

If you did not know Jason made that initial motion to the left, you would only see the final corkscrew to the right, and you would think a rightward motion made a leftward curve.

No wonder even accomplished casters are puzzled by this cast.

What ever you do with the rod tip after the stop affects how the fly line lands; and the sooner you do it after the stop, the closer the change in fly line direction will be to the leader. Everything is related to the stop, because it is the stop that causes loop formation and transfers potential energy from the bent rod to the fly line. What happens is that any change in direction or position of the rod tip is transmitted to the fly line and travels down the fly line following the loop as it moves from the rod tip to the end of the line and leader.

Now that you have seen the cast, imagine a rod tip motion to reposition the line after the stop. Try to visualize it in your mind and you will begin to understand what happens after the hard stop. The stop caused the rod tip to slow down. The fly line continues forward at the same speed, and its momentum carries it ahead of the slowing rod tip. Since the end of the fly line is anchored to the rod tip, this forward momentum of the trailing line causes it to flip over and form a loop which travels toward the end of the line and leader as the fly line extends itself. Whatever you do after loop formation then must follow the loop down the fly line. The longer you wait after the stop to move the rod tip, the further the loop has traveled down the line before the action caused by the movement of the rod tip can follow it down the line.

All the "in-the-air mends" we do rely this fact. The simplest reach mend repositions the fly line to the side of the mend, because we "reach" or reposition the rod tip to the side of the mend.

I leave you with the way I think about curves and mends.

A simple concept is that curve casts are performed by rod tip motions before the stop, mends which may also be curves are performed by rod tip motion after the stop.

This leads me to the shadow cast as performed by Jason Borger in The River Runs Through It. We all have seen the cast. Gary and Jason designed that cast and it is composed entirely of curve casts and mends that reposition the fly line in the air.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...asonborger.gif

mcnerney 11-21-2012 01:16 PM

Re: Always throw a hook or tuck cast
 
Silver: Thanks for the explanation and the video. Now I need to get the fly rod out on the front lawn and do some practice!

Larry


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