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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2012, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

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Originally Posted by busbus View Post
Okay. I will see what I can do. I am not that great with video junk. Eventhough I am an IT geek, I am total old school. Maybe when my son is home from college, he can video me.

I can say this for sure: I will be torallty embarrassed because I bet absolutely everything I do is wrong. But I do get the fly more or less in the spot I want it to go. The line is just not tight at all. And all I can really do is roll cast.
I think most smart phones take videos now and even my iPod touch does.

Do a side view against a contrasting colored building to the fly line. So if the fly line is dark, do it against a light colored building if possible.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2012, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

My casts were doing the same thing, what helped me a lot was getting on youtube and watching some casting videos. There are several on there that are good and explain what and how to do it. Then I just go out in the back yard and I practiced a lot with it. Once I did that my casts were much better than before and I think part of my problem now is the cheap rod, reel, line combo I have. Waiting for xmas to get my new stuff and see if I am correct about that.

Practice, Practice, Practice!

Good Luck and keep having fun!
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhardin80 View Post
My casts were doing the same thing, what helped me a lot was getting on youtube and watching some casting videos. There are several on there that are good and explain what and how to do it. Then I just go out in the back yard and I practiced a lot with it. Once I did that my casts were much better than before and I think part of my problem now is the cheap rod, reel, line combo I have. Waiting for xmas to get my new stuff and see if I am correct about that.

Practice, Practice, Practice!

Good Luck and keep having fun!
I'll agree that videos are better than no video BUT they are not the total solution even with practice.

Here's the problem I see again and again. The newbie thinks he/she is doing what the the caster in the video is doing but they are not. Typically, they go way to far back, they use too much arm extension, they have poor stops, etc, etc.

The problem is they cannot see themselves cast, and so they have no point of reference from which to make the needed corrections. Is it not logical that if you are going to learn from a video, you should have a video of yourself to compare what you are doing with what the video instructor is doing?

Even when I am standing by their side, most newbies cannot duplicate what I tell them to do unless I break their casting motion down, and make stepwise corrections.

The crux of the issue is that practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect. The great majority of beginners trying to teach themselves, cannot practice perfectly without seeing themselves cast or having someone knowledgeable correct them.

The beauty of teaching a group of people to cast is that I can point to another beginner with the same casting fault, and show them what they are doing right or wrong. So the other caster becomes the "video" of what the caster is doing right or wrong.

Correcting a casting fault by yourself is a three step process. First you need to see what the fault is with your own eyes. Step two is to try to correct the fault. Step three is to verify that you have corrected the fault. All three require the beginner to "see" the fault and the correction.

How can the beginner do all three steps by himself? It is d*mn hard without a video of himself as a reference.

An example is the backcast. It is very difficult for a beginner to "feel" the backcast so he turns and watches his backcast to get visual cues. It is apparent that the original poster is unable to "see" or "feel" what he is doing wrong. If he could, there would be no need to ask for help. Thus, I suggest a video.
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Last edited by silver creek; 12-13-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

Thanks, Silver,

You are absolutely correct. I have no clue what I am doing wrong. I am sure there are multiple things. I am sort of happy with the fact that I can more or less get the fly to go where I want it to go but the line is an ugly mess on the water. I am going to try to get a video.

And you are right: I simply cannot see my fly going out behind me.

The more I think of it, the more I think I may be best served by going to that free LL Bean class or go to my local Orvis shop and get a one-on-one lesson for $35 or $40.

No matter what I do, post a video here or go see somebody in person, I am going to be hugely humbled and embarrassed, I am sure.


bus
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by busbus View Post

The more I think of it, the more I think I may be best served by going to that free LL Bean class or go to my local Orvis shop and get a one-on-one lesson for $35 or $40.
That could very well be the best investment you will make in fly fishing.
Watching video and reading books is good reinforcement and excellent for unburying some secret that might fix a fault you find yourself throwing but you have to first know what good is to compare to.
I good instructor will give you instant feedback that you use right then and there to reinforce what you are learning. A good instructor will also know and explain your faults and teach you the cures for them.
I'm not completely happy when instructing until the student corrects the fault(s) they're working on on their own.
It does a teacher good when the student throws a bad cast and out loud says what he did wrong and then takes the steps to correct it himself. It is rather shocking how many people I work with will say out loud that they blew a cast, why it went bad and what they'll do to correct it.
Practice after a lesson with a good instructor produces good, corrective practice as the student now knows the fault and how to correct it.

If you go the this site: Councils find the council in your area and hopefully an IFFF club in your area. The IFFF makes no bones about it, amongst promoting conservation for all fish in all waters, it is a fly fishing educational organization whose goal is to promote fly fishing in all of it's many facets from tying to casting to conservation.
The reason I brought this up (and got sidetracked it seems!) is because each club generally has the staff and gear to help you along in your journey as a fly fisher.
The annual conclaves or festivals each council generally has each year is usually crammed with classes, speakers and other opportunities to learn from the best. Check 'em out!
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

x2 for having an in-the-flesh instructor. In my own experience, books and videos were helpful, it helped more when an instructor gave me advice and corrections. What really made the difference was when he stood right next to me to keep my arm from moving too far from my body, put his hand up to stop me from going too far back, and then suddenly stepped in front of me to halt my forward cast. This gave me a physical sense of what a better casting stroke felt like. I was able to feel it and remember that motion rather than trying to imagine how the words would translate into a casting motion that I couldn't see.

It was a big help though I know I still have more to learn.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
I'll agree that videos are better than no video BUT they are not the total solution even with practice.

Here's the problem I see again and again. The newbie thinks he/she is doing what the the caster in the video is doing but they are not. Typically, they go way to far back, they use too much arm extension, they have poor stops, etc, etc.

The problem is they cannot see themselves cast, and so they have no point of reference from which to make the needed corrections. Is it not logical that if you are going to learn from a video, you should have a video of yourself to compare what you are doing with what the video instructor is doing?

Even when I am standing by their side, most newbies cannot duplicate what I tell them to do unless I break their casting motion down, and make stepwise corrections.

The crux of the issue is that practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect. The great majority of beginners trying to teach themselves, cannot practice perfectly without seeing themselves cast or having someone knowledgeable correct them.

The beauty of teaching a group of people to cast is that I can point to another beginner with the same casting fault, and show them what they are doing right or wrong. So the other caster becomes the "video" of what the caster is doing right or wrong.

Correcting a casting fault by yourself is a three step process. First you need to see what the fault is with your own eyes. Step two is to try to correct the fault. Step three is to verify that you have corrected the fault. All three require the beginner to "see" the fault and the correction.

How can the beginner do all three steps by himself? It is d*mn hard without a video of himself as a reference.

An example is the backcast. It is very difficult for a beginner to "feel" the backcast so he turns and watches his backcast to get visual cues. It is apparent that the original poster is unable to "see" or "feel" what he is doing wrong. If he could, there would be no need to ask for help. Thus, I suggest a video.
Didn't mean to light a fire under you. I simply stated that the videos helped me tremendously. I didn't know about the 2 and 10 positions or making a stop or any of that and after watching a few good videos that explained those things I was able to make much better casts, I didn't say it was going to make me an expert caster or that I was done by just watching videos. I too should still go take a class but for now on a **** rod, reel, line combo, I'm making casts that catch fish now when, before, I wasn't doing so well.

THE VIDEOS HELPED ME!!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Why does my line fall all squiggly?

Quote:
I am going to try to get a video.
Good plan! Although it's nice, it is not necessary that the fly line be visable, just the entire casting stroke and as much of the rod as possible should be in the frame. It should be taken from the side.

Quote:
And you are right: I simply cannot see my fly going out behind me.


After stretching your line to remove coils, try standing sideways in a field (wind at your back) and doing pickups and laydowns along a line parallel with your feet (imaginary if no sidewalk or rope available) with the rod horizontal. Watch the loops closely in both directions and try to narrow them.

Follow the line down with the rod tip at the end of each laydown so your rod tip wll be almost touching the ground to eliminate all slack for the next pickup. If you still have slack, move away from the end of the fly line before the next pickup and lay down.

If you are getting wide loops, do you know how to narrow them?
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