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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2013, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

Silver Creek,

This is news to me. I had a video tape of Rajeff demonstrating long-distance casting, and he definately says that many long-distance casters prefer DT lines. I have no way of measuring the weight of the first 60 feet of both lines, but from just looking at them - the head to the WF is so much thicker - it seems that the first 60 feet of the DT would weigh less, but I certainly could be wrong.

I will look into this.

Randy
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

Jackster, will let us know.

I did find these:

"The Line

A Scientific Anglers Mastery XXD WF5F floating fly line of 32 meters length was used in the test. The competition version of the XXD, which has the same belly length as the ordinary version and four meters more running line, has been the most popular of the four allowed lines in the 5-Line Cup. The XXD-line has a long belly-more than 20 meters-compared to "ordinary" WF lines with belly lengths that are typically slightly more than 10 meters. The mass of the XXD line also slightly concentrated towards the tip which delays and enhances turnover-a definitive advantage in distance casting. The XXD is in our opinion best suited for experienced anglers since you have to aerialize most of the long belly in order to get the most from shooting."


8 rods - 8 Casters

http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/iB_html/u...te__2009_9.pdf

RIO Gold Tournament - Freshwater Fly Lines | RIO
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
Jackster,
Wouldn't those be "long belly" WF fly lines and not DT lines?
Scientific Angler says their distance line has a 'long taper' which appears to also be a compound taper on their line profile image.
http://buy.scientificanglers.com/lin...-distance.html
Barrio prefers their distance lines configured as I mentioned be called 'longhead' rather than longbelly' for reasons unknown to me.
http://www.flylineshop.com/barrio-gt125.html
Rio calls theirs a long head line.
http://www.rioproducts.com/fly-lines...ld-tournament/
Airflo mentions a long head on theirs.
http://www.rajeffsports.com/40plus.php
The fact these lines teminate into a thin running line tells me they are WF lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
One more thing, more carry does not mean more distance. I have video of my friend Bill doing a 90' carry with a 3 wt. I wish he would let me post. He Carries 100' with no problem with a 5 wt. line. It's cool to do, but the trick to getting more distance is not in the amount you carry but the line speed when you shoot. Higher speed means more distance.
For mere mortals it appears distance is gained with a combination of both long carry and shooting.
I can't envision someone who can carry only a relatively small amount of line shooting 50-60' on the final cast to cast 100'+ and I also can't picture carring only the amount of line you'll end up with and not taking advantage of the extra distance shooting line at the end of the cast will gain you.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

When I was experimenting on my own I was able to cast farther with my Rio Long Cast line than with the XXD. That may have been because I was used to the Rio.

When I tried the XXD, a week before the Best in the West Tournament I was getting terrible tailing loops. The line felt really heavy to me.

I asked someone who would know: the first 60 feet of a DT does weigh more than the first 60 feet of a WF, so I stand corrected on that. A good caster, however, will cast farther with a DT line.
Now, I'm curious to know why, as a "heavier" line should slow the rod down, which is why going one-weight down - a 4-weight line ona 5 weight rod - will enable a caster to carry more overhang.

Randy

Last edited by randyflycaster; 01-26-2013 at 06:03 PM. Reason: More info
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy said
The bottom line is: you have to experiment on you're own, but the more false casts you make the less line you'll probably be able to carry.
I agree 100%, Randy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan said
One more thing, more carry does not mean more distance. I have video of my friend Bill doing a 90' carry with a 3 wt. I wish he would let me post. He Carries 100' with no problem with a 5 wt. line. It's cool to do, but the trick to getting more distance is not in the amount you carry but the line speed when you shoot. Higher speed means more distance.
I also agree with what you mean, Dan. As an example, I fish almost exclusively salt water now (except for LM Bass which is about the same for me).

When test casting rods I may want to buy, I take the line I want the rod for and cast it. I have never "carried" a lot of line; instead, I shoot a whole bunch into the last (often the only) backcast. What I am looking for is a rod that will handle as much line as I have in the air on that backcast as I have strength for on the following forward cast. In other words, I like a rod that will take a good bend without mushing out before my rod hand strength does on the ensuing forward cast. "Reserve power" is probably a reasonable name tag.

To your point that I emphasized above, I have a strong enough backcast such that I can overload my rod hand strength in accelerating the rod on the next forward cast. In addition to that, the longer the backcast, the more sag will develop in the line which can interfere with loop efficiency.

I also think it can cause the caster to compensate by beginning the forward haul earlier than normal in order to compensate for the sag, and wind up with the rod unloading too soon - causing tails or near tails.

Hand speed of the hauling hand accelerates until it stops, and that generally should not occur until the rod is unloaded.

If there is not enough line in the air as the forward cast is begun and a good haul is used, a "tuck" cast will be the inevitable result.

The only time I ever marked and tape measured overhang was (as mentioned numerous times here) when checking the total weight aeriolized on a Levithan 550gr WF and a 12 wt Rio tarpon taper on the same rod. It turned out that the overhang was within inches of being half the total head length of each of those lines.

The total weight of both those lines from end of line to the overhang was within a few percent. On lighter rods, it may well be more - depending on the head length. Certainlly not half the head length on a competition line (unfortunately).

Anyhow, that's my philosophy on rod selection (salwater) and overhang until further notice.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackster
For mere mortals it appears distance is gained with a combination of both long carry and shooting.
Same thing I said - but you are "self-editing".
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Last edited by wjc; 01-27-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:08 AM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

I searched for fly casting competition rules. The World Championship and the Best of the West Competitions use WF fly lines. The ACA Tournament uses a shooting head and running line.


World Casting Championship Rules

http://www.wcflycasting.com/upload/Rules_Flycasting.pdf

Under Trout distance competition.

"2. Fly line: Scientific anglers mastery expert distance competition WF5F (orange, 120 ft.). The line shall not be modified in any way.'


Best of the West Competition Rules

ISE Sportsman Competitions

Under Equipment:

"Line: 90 ft, weight forward, floating"


American Casting Association Tournament Rules

http://www.americancastingassoc.org/...view=FitH,1078

Pg 25 under Angler Fly Distance rules:

"Line

a) Shooting head shall be no longer than thirty-one (31) feet nor shorter then twenty-eight (28) feet and shall weigh not more then three hundred ten (310) grains.

b) Running line - Unrestricted except that the diameter shall not be less than 0.015 inches.'
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

In response to this thread, I started this thread on a competition-casting board:

iB::Topic::WF or DT?

Randy
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

Quote:
Originally Posted by randyflycaster View Post
In response to this thread, I started this thread on a competition-casting board:

iB::Topic::WF or DT?

Randy
Randy, what did you learn from that exchange?
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

Randy,

If you try a DT vs a longbelly WF, I'd also like to know which on works better for you.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Casting questions from a rookie

This article about different floating fly lines is interesting:

The Technical Fly Fisherman by Bob Mallard

Randy
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