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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2013, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Double hauling destroys my cast

I went out and practiced some more today and incorporated everyone's tips (thanks by the way). Vast improvement but, I still get a slight tailing loop when I haul but, not when casting without a haul. I'll keep working on it. I was able to drop my line within a foot of a horse shoe post from about 60' out 8 out of 10 times so I'm pretty happy with my progress so far.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Double hauling destroys my cast

The tailing loop is due an even haul OR not tipping down your wrist just at the stop.

When the fly rod straightens after the stop, the "effective rod length" (the distance of the rod tip from the hand) lengthens. If you don't tip the rod tip down to compensate for this rod lengthening, the rod tip will be higher than the trailing fly line causing a tailing loop that begins at the rod stop. You need to flick the rod tip down just before the stop to allow the fly line to clear the rod tip.

There are many names for this flick. Doug Swisher calls it the "micro wrist". See this description from the Orvis Guide to Better Fly Casting by Al Kyte, pp 25/26.

The Orvis Guide to Better Fly Casting

"Most instructors teach a firm wrist throughout the forward cast to reduce 'wristiness,' but they probably hope students will move the wrist enough to help speed up the tip. I am careful to avoid the term locked wrist, because some students do exactly what you say and then have trouble loosening their grip enough to use the wrist at all. And if you even mention wrist movement in your teaching, students will often overdo it. Knowing this, some instructors teach students to press the thumb. In doing so, they teach a little late wrist movement, without having students even think about the wrist.

Longtime Orvis Master Instructor Bill Cairns has taught tightening the thumb and forefinger, bringing the the wrist into play and stopping. Doug Swisher referred to this quick wrist movement as a micro-wrist. and Joe Humphries refers to it as a tap……

Jim Green also emphasized pressing with the thumb to create a little wrist movement before stopping it immediately before his hand. So the "positive" in his positive stop is a little wrist pivot that not only stops the rod, but helps force the tip over the resistance of the butt of the rod."

When the rod tip travels in a straight line, loop size is controlled by a micro flick of the wrist just before the stop. This micro flick speeds up the rod tip and moves it out of the way of the following fly line. It tips the rod tip down a bit and controls the loop size. Otherwise, the "effective rod length" lengthens as the rod straightens at the stop. The rod tip moves above the level of the following line and a tailing loop develops.The size of this flick controls the loop size.

The Illustration below is from Jason's book on casting and shows that the degree of "flick" controls loop size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Fly casters who think the wrist must be absolutely locked are surprised when they learn of the late micro flick. But it is a necessary move for a good cast and to prevent a tailing loop.

The Federation of Fly Fishers Master Casting Clinic Study Guide states:

"The wrist is better suited for quick, final movements than for those requiring sustained, evenly applied force. ------- Other instructors believe this wrist action is so important that they emphasize it in their teaching. Lefty and Joan Wulff cast with different styles, yet both have stated that they use large muscles to provide force and direction to throw the line, but a late, quick wrist movement to control the size of the casting loop. ------- Longtime East Coast instructor Bill Cairns has similarly described this wrist action. Doug Swisher has taught it as a "micro-wrist" movement and Joe Humphreys as a "tap". ------ On the forward cast, I want to build in wrist action as part of the stop. To do this, I need to channel a student?s wrist movement into a late time frame within the cast."

I use a wet paint brush as a good way to teach this wrist flick or micro wrist. I ask the student to stand in front of a wall and flick water off of a soaked paint brush so the water lands on the wall at about eye level.
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Last edited by silver creek; 09-14-2013 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: Double hauling destroys my cast

Silver: Though that's good information, getting into casting style isn't important IMO. For example, how you grip the rod with the thumb really makes no difference so long as you can throw a line straight back behind you and follow it up with a good forward cast. It's whatever works best for the individual.

I put no emphasis into casting style -- pushing, pulling, amount of wrist, elbow movement, shoulder rotation, body movement, rod arc, where you pull the hand when hauling, etc. are all done to different degrees among the top casters in the sport. For example, I cast much more like the late Mel Krieger and very unlike Lefty Kreh....although I read Lefty's book early and and wish I hadn't because regardless of what he says, he basically teaches "principles" that show you how Lefty casts. Not that some aren't true - but if the best casters in the world have extremely different styles (and they do), how important can it be?

I think I do use some wrist "snap", but I don't pay attention to it enough to tell. I'd best that the real "pulling" style casters don't use much of it though. I think they emphasize more of a hard stop via heavy shoulder rotation -- not wrist. I'd imagine that you don't need to teach using wrist snap -- it would seem to develop naturally when the caster learns how to 'stop' on the cast.

Everyone teaches tailing loops differently too...which is funny to me. I can pick up any rod and throw a tailing loop at will -- even placing it in the fly line, which is kind of fun . They way I get tailing loops (at will and by accident) is by ending the cast early before the rod flexes completely...or using a casting arc that is too short for the amount of line I have out. I've never looked into whether not using wrist can cause it, though what you're saying seems to make sense.

The only thing that matters is what the loops look like going back and forth (on an overhead cast....obviously not a roll cast ). I mean the "end result" -- not casting style.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: Double hauling destroys my cast

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaddock View Post
I still get a slight tailing loop when I haul but, not when casting without a haul. I'll keep working on it. I was able to drop my line within a foot of a horse shoe post from about 60' out 8 out of 10 times so I'm pretty happy with my progress so far.
A tailing loop is when the fly leg and the rod leg of the casting loop cross each other and get tangle. For this to occur, the back cast and forward cast must be performed in the same geometric plane.

By using an elliptical casting motion, the back cast and forward cast are made in different planes and this separates the two legs of the loop formation. Even if the upper and lower legs of the loop formation cross vertically, they cannot catch on each other because they are separated horizontally in space. The line cannot catch itself because they are in different planes.

To see how this works, make a side ward back cast and then an overhead forward cast and you will see than the two legs of the loop are in different planes. Even if the upper leg of the loop drops down because of a concave path on the forward stroke, there is no lower leg of the loop to get tangle with because there is a horizontal separation of the two legs of the loop.

This type of cast us known as the Belgian Cast. Because this cast separates the planes of the back cast and forward cast, it is an excellent cast to prevent tangles not only for tailing loops but also when casting multiple flies or heavily weighted flies. It is also an excellent wind cast when your back is to the wind and it often called the Belgian Wind Cast for this reason.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Double hauling destroys my cast

I also find the belgian cast gives me (somehow) a greater sense of timing....at least it seems to. When I cast really heavy rabbit strip streamers with lead I like to use it -- seems the easiest way to get distance without so much whipping on the transition .

A lot of SW guys like it as well -
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Double hauling destroys my cast

Try this video

https://vimeo.com/12031031
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