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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2013, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Line question

Not sure if your line has anything to do with it? Maybe its too obvious but weight forward makes a huge difference
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Line question

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Originally Posted by learning2fly View Post
Not sure if your line has anything to do with it? Maybe its too obvious but weight forward makes a huge difference
With all due respect, you are mistaken. It is neither obvious or correct.

A standard WF line is exactly like the DT for the first 30 feet, plus a DT continues to have the thick body so it loads more mass than a WF line as the casts get longer. So the WF would actually load the rod less with more line out.

As the CCS measurement showed, the problem is not that the 4 wt fly line over loads his rod on long cast, it is that he cannot get the rod to load. So the rod is way underlined.

The profile of a Cortland fly line is below

Click the image to open in full size.

The only difference would be a specialty WF line like a bass bug WF line has an extremely short front taper like a bass bug taper. The Scientific Anglers bass bug taper below has a 3.0 ft front taper vs an 8.0 front taper for the standard Cortland WF fly line above.

Click the image to open in full size.

According to the CCS measurement the rod is not even the 6 wt that is on the rod. Hence the need to borrow a 8/9 wt fly line to test the rod.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Line question

Thank you for the charts, the technical information us starting to bring this together for me much better.

And yes I am using a 6WF/F line on that rod, well not any longer

I also have a grain scale, so I will be weighing the line later too, just to make sure what it is.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: Line question

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Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
....A standard WF line is exactly like the DT for the first 30 feet, plus a DT continues to have the thick body so it loads more mass than a WF line as the casts get longer. So the WF would actually load the rod less with more line out.
Silver, then what is the point of WF line? (other than the bass bug example)
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Line question

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Originally Posted by ia_trouter View Post
what is the point of WF line? (other than the bass bug example)
For longer casts.... you can shoot more line with the thin running line than you can with the fat belly DT.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Line question

Bingo -- Rip hit it.

I generally prefer a "standard" head length WF line for most conditions. However, for SH spey casts and long distance casts, I like the longer head WF lines quite a bit.

If you fish big water like I often do, the WF is really the way to go. The ability to stand far back on a flat and really toss a streamer out to the fish is a benefit here -- it's a lot easier to shoot a WF running like out there. HOwever, I don't generally like the extreme WF lines (bass taper, SW taper, etc.) because I don't fish particularly large flies often. If I did, they would be a good choice.

If you fish smaller water, the difference between a DT and WF line is minimal or non-existent (given the same front taper, etc.), so take your pick.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Line question

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Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post
For longer casts.... you can shoot more line with the thin running line than you can with the fat belly DT.
Exactly! +2

Read what Bruce Richards of Scientific Anglers has to say about DT vs WF lines:

"Almost all WF lines have heads that are 35-40 feet long. Add a 9-foot leader and the distance to the fly from the end of the head is 44- to 49-feet. Up to this distance when both DT and WF lines control and roll cast the same. There are not many typical trout fishing situations that require longer casts. What this all means is that DT and WF lines work pretty much the same at the distances we fish most often. "

Double Taper Versus Weight Forward: Which is Really Better? | Fly Fishing Info Center

So unless you need the extra distance of a WF line or the front weighting of a bass bug taper, get a DT fly line. As a practical matter I use DT for 4 wt rods and below and WF for 5 wt and above.

If you need to save money, you can even make your own WF fly lines. We used to do that in the old days and you can still do that now.

When I began fly fishing, I didn't have much money. Both my wife and I fly fished, so it required two of every piece of equipment. One place I could save was to make my own fly rods, so I made two graphite rods from a Fenwick HMG blanks.

I also made my own WF fly lines from a single DT fly line and Cortland running fly line. It is very simple. Cut the DT fly line in half. Remove the coating from the back end with acetone and form a loop with the core by forming a loop and whip finishing it with nylon thread. Then coat the whip finish with flexible Pliobond cement.

Click the image to open in full size.

Do the same by cutting the package of shooting fly line in half and forming a loop with it's core using the method above.

Connect the two loops and you have a home made WF fly line. You can reuse the running line and replace the section of DT fly line as it wears out.

I use Cortland 444 running line that comes in several diameters so you can tailor it to the weight of DT line you are using.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Cortland 444SL Classic Running Line at BEARSDEN.COM

If you do not need two WF lines, you can keep the half section of DT line on the spool and store it in a ziplock bag for later use.

With this system, you can make the front section as long as you want. If half of a DT line is too much, keep cutting back the line until is perfect for your casting style.

It seems to me that the Welded Joint Repair of joining two section of fly line could make 2 relatively seamless home made WF fly lines from a single DT fly line. Once you fine tune the front section of DT, you can weld the running line to make a seamless custom WF line.

The running line portion of WF fly lines rarely wear out completely. With the next WF fly line that wears out, I'm going to see if I can cut it and weld it back together. If that works, I have some DT fly line that I can measure and cut to see if I can make a welded WF line a DT and the old WF running line.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Line question

Picked up some 9wt line, problem solved
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Line question

[QUOTE=ctshooter;612868]So anyone near NW CT have an 8/9 wt rod that I can borrow the reel for a few casts to verify my theory about this rod, before I go out and buy more line that is not correct?
QUOTE]

I was going to make that suggestion before I read to the bottom of the page and saw you had thought of it. In our casting club there are some very good casters, and yet at times they are puzzled by the difficulties that some rods provide. A change of even 1 weight of line is sometimes all that is needed.
Is there a fishing club or chapter of FFF or TU nearby? It would be nice to get a second opinion on the choice of the bette weight line.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Line question

I will be getting together with the local TU, education is a great thing.

As far as this rod, I could probably take it down to an 8 easy, but that is not what I want, so this will probably see a lot of closet time. I have always used ultra light gear for my spinning rods, bass fishing with 2lb test line. So I'm trying to head in the same direction with fly, I would love to find a 6'6" 2wt for the Brookie streams.
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