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-   -   How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod? (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-cast/340523-how-do-you-know-if-line-too-heavy-rod.html)

busbus 12-20-2013 09:23 PM

How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
Okay, so I actually have two questions from today. I obtained an off-brand Korean rod in September for $25 on eBay (plus $8 shipping). I got it so my son could have his own rod when we go out, since he had a lot of fun this summer. He is sort of a clod and was hitting my Orvis Clearwater 5wt on every tree, bush, rock, THING that he passed. So I decided he can use this cheapie until and unless he really gets into this sport. Plus he only likes going to the local lake for bluegill, so he doesn't need any great rod. Plus this rod is only 7.5 feet long, so he may hit less things as he walks along.

I still need a cheap reel for the rod but I figured I could get away with using the 5wt I normally use. I only brought that one rod and I was having a horrible time casting today. I was using all the same flies I normally use and I couldn't get any of them to cast nicely. When I brought the rod to the fly shop I frequent, they said it feels like the rod would load best with a 4wt line--even though it is marked like it may need a 6wt.

Could the reason I was having so much trouble casting be because the line is too heavy? I can see that a rod won't load enough with line that was not heavy enough but what happens when it is too heavy?

I can tell you this: it was like my line would go straight up into the air them fall straight down into a pile. I know my casting skills sort of su...su...su...stink, but not THAT bad. And even when I am having a really bad day, I seem to be able to cast alright whenever I relax and just do it instead of thinking too much and forcing things. Not so today.


ray

itchmesir 12-20-2013 09:36 PM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
Buying a cheapo no name rod and asking why you can't cast with it is like buying a smart car and asking why you can't do 120 on the highway. It's likely the rod just sucks.

When a line is too heavy the rod slows down... Bends deeper... You'll feel it.... The line will "feel" heavy

ctshooter 12-20-2013 10:05 PM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
It sounds to me it is the opposite, the line is too light, same type of problems I was having with my old cheap kmart special, it just wouldn't load no matter how much line I had out.

Look up the "common cents" sticky and use the penny test to measure the rods flex.
My rod is marked 6wt, but when I put it to the test, it came out a 9wt, I bought some 9wt line and what do you know, even with my su..su.. stinky casting ability, it worked it self out, so now I have a nice 9wt 8.5' should I feel like bothering some bass this summer.

Good luck, don't sweat the cheap rod, it's better than no rod :) Stick a nice Martin 65 on it and go have fun with your son.

craigthor 12-20-2013 10:05 PM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
Could it be that the rod really needs a 6wt line to perform well, possible that your 5wt line isn't heavy enough for it. I've fished my rod underlined once and it sucked. Possible but you really had to force it to do anything. No anyone with a 6 or 7wt line to stick on it to see if that helps.

jaybo41 12-21-2013 07:44 AM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
Hey Ray,

ctshooter's suggestion is on the money, the Common Cents system will help you figure out which kind of line to pair with your rod. Other than that, it's probably trial and error. If you're getting up into 7wt or 8wt for a pairing, then you might just have yourself a good lake/pond fisher for smallies and even steelhead:)

Keep us updated.

easterncaster 12-21-2013 08:32 AM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
The rod is over lined when your usual ability to control the outcome of the cast is hampered, overridden by the line's affect on the rod.

Technically speaking, "The rod gets wonky" ;)

Look for a forward loop that gets pulled open and will not come back into shape. As well, try to make a medium distance, medium speed, well mannered narrow loop and see if instead the loops tails.

Casting ability differs from one caster to the next. Ability, very importantly includes 'feel'. What one caster feels the other may not. This too has a technical description: The Goldilocks Effect. Pay attention to your Inner Goldilocks - the (your) truth often rests there.

Craig

busbus 12-21-2013 08:34 AM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
I do have a Martin Caddis (?) reel sitting here with 6wt line on it. Dick's Sporting Goods was getting rid of it two years ago. I think the line is not that great but it will work for my purposes.

I will say the rod is full flex. Not quite like the yellow Eagle Claws but the whole rod bends. I thought that was the reason I was having trouble yesterday but I swear it was the line.

I am not a great caster but It felt like I was casting for the first time. I am looking for a rod my son can use to cast from the lake bank. I was hoping this was a 4wt like they thought it was at International Angler but if it is more of a 6wt, it will still work but bluegill won't be as much fun. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

easterncaster 12-21-2013 08:45 AM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
busbus,

A 6 is what I learned on, on sunfish, as a kiddo wading a lake shore. I recommend it unless your son is not yet up to strength to wield it.

A 6 will easily throw a popper to panfish - this is important - you want to set up your son for success; limit difficulty, kill frustration.

A 6, IMHO, will take more abuse than a 4.

again, IMHO,
Craig

busbus 12-21-2013 10:32 AM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by easterncaster (Post 623099)
busbus,

A 6 is what I learned on, on sunfish, as a kiddo wading a lake shore. I recommend it unless your son is not yet up to strength to wield it.

A 6 will easily throw a popper to panfish - this is important - you want to set up your son for success; limit difficulty, kill frustration.

A 6, IMHO, will take more abuse than a 4.

again, IMHO,
Craig


Craig,

My son is a 22-year-old, 6' 4" MOOSE. He is strong enough to fish with a flag pole. But he does have his challenges, mostly related to what we all believe was undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome. And he is still waaaay on the clumsy side. I always thought he would grow out of it but I think he is what he is.

At least he is attempting to fish these days. He went with me about four times this past summer while he was home from college and not working. He went TWICE as many times this year than he ever agreed to go the other 21 years of his life. I had to actually re-teach him how to spin cast!

I offered my 9-foot 5wt to him to try since I was catching gill all over the place and all he was doing was getting bird's nests. I showed him how to roll cast since I knew he wouldn't pay any attention to people who walk a trail that was right behind us about ten feet. He instantly was able to cast alright. It took me a month of practicing to get where he was in three casts.

And he caught fish. A bunch of them. Then he caught multiple bluegill the other times we went out. He tried to look disinterested but you tell he was really happy. He doesn't get happy much and those times were special to me.

So that is why I bought this thing. He can smack it on whatever or drop it or do some other odd thing to it because, well, those things happen to the poor kid. But I also know that whenever he really comes to like something, he takes really good care of it. I am hoping this becomes one of those things he takes a liking toward.

That way, I can get him a nice outfit in the future and I will get something even better: a great fishing partner.

silver creek 12-21-2013 11:20 AM

Re: How do you know if a line is too heavy for a rod?
 
It is relatively simple to tell if a rod is under or overloaded for your personal casting style.

Put the fly rod on the ground and lay out 30 feet of fly line out of the guides. Pick up the rod and make sure all the slack is out of the line. Makes some pick up and lay down casts with that amount of line.

How did the rod feel - underloaded, overloaded, or just right?

If underloaded, pull out 5 more feet of line and try again, If overloaded, shorten the fly line by 5 feet and cast again. Repeat until it feels just right. Weigh the line and you have just about the right rod rating for you.


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