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The Fly Cast Discuss fly casting with the expert, ask for help, learn to cast farther, increase your accuracy, troubleshoot your cast.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2014, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Loading the rod

But when a cast must be as perfect as possible even the best fly casters watch their backcasts.[/quote]

I guess what we have to do here is separate tournament style from actual flyfishing. In my case in a fishing condition my focus is on a target. I never take my eye from that target. My backcast has been calculated according to the conditions...wind and aerial mends,etc. and the forward and backcast cast is timed to replicate the visual sense...not any feeling I have in the backcast of the line tugging or the rod bending. The timing for my casts are the same for both the forward cast and the backcast. I start my backcast just a moment before the line unrolls in the forward cast and that timing I translate to the backcast.

To me ..watching the backcast has been valuable to me if I stand with my shoulders parallel to the target and cast side-arm. In this case nothing seems to go off track but over head the rod takes off and I lose control.
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:37 PM
 
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Default Re: Loading the rod

When Steve Rajeff casts for accuracy, he watches his forward cast and the target. The difference I think is that with distance, you are shooting line on your backcast and the timing on when to begin the backcast is much more critical than at the shorter distances of the accuracy competition. You will notice that Steve doesn't not shoot line during the accuracy phase, he has his distance to target set with the correct amount to line out of the guides before he does the lay down cast.

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Old 03-09-2014, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Loading the rod

This is the kind of post new guys like me need. With the rods I have, im not sure if I feel them load or not. I do feel, hear and see my line. So im more tuned into what my line is doing. By watching my loop, both forward and back, I can feel when my line wants something more.

Ill keep practicing, yall keep posting. Thanks for an excellent thread.
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:01 AM
 
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Default Re: Loading the rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker66 View Post
This is the kind of post new guys like me need. With the rods I have, im not sure if I feel them load or not. I do feel, hear and see my line. So im more tuned into what my line is doing. By watching my loop, both forward and back, I can feel when my line wants something more.

Ill keep practicing, yall keep posting. Thanks for an excellent thread.
I need to clarify what rod load is and is not. Most caster identify rod "load" as the bending and unbending of the fly rod during the cast. But this is not the ONLY feedback that we get during a fly cast.

There is also the change in momentum and inertia of the fly line during a fly cast. Even in the absence of rod "load," the caster can feel the momentum and inertia changes of the fly line as it alternates during a fly cast. This is entirely separate from rod "load." We can cast with a pool cue as Simon Gawesworth has or without a fly rod at all. When there is no rod that flexes, there is no rod "load;" but the momentum and inertial changes of the cast are felt through the stiff pool cue by proprioception.

"Many years ago, when I was doing the demonstration circuit of fly-fishing shows in the UK, I had a routine that showed it was possible to cast without any rod flex. I took my old pool cue and whipped a couple of rod rings (one at the tip) and a reel seat on it. During the demos I would cast a WF7 fly line with this cue. I could cast it 50 feet or so, but it took effort to do this as there was no flex in the cue to help. The pool cue was five feet long, so the only way I could generate any line speed to make a cast was to utilize arm and wrist speed and the five-foot length of leverage to basically throw out the fly line. I could throw a very tight loop but had to really work at getting the cast to go any distance.

Another part of the demonstration was to put the pool cue down and thread the fly line through a one-inch split ring. I cupped the split ring in my right thumb and index finger and proceeded to cast with only my hand, arm, and wrist. Again, there is no flex or spring power when casting this way, and I had negated the five-foot length of leverage. This shows that it is possible to cast without any flex or leverage length and that the power only came from my arm and wrist speed. However, it could never be called efficient!"


Fly Rod Casting - Fly Fisherman
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Loading the rod

One has to have some additional line running to shoot a little on the backcast anyways, if you're going to throw long. I think it's a lot easier to make your delivery while you've already extended your hand-drift, and that comes from extending the line roughly prior to that drift...y/n? At least that's what seems to always work...
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Loading the rod

Over the past almost 60 years I've had the chance to get a lot of fly fishing packed in there.

While I agree that you need to know what the fly line in back of you is doing, a caution beginners about watching it too much.

If one stands sideways to watch the line, it will become a habit and when you have to stand the opposite way for balance or footing, it all goes to pot.

I have no idea how many times I've spent a half hour poling the boat to get a guy in position, then say "Redfish at 10 o'clock, 70' see him?"
The anglers says, "NO"
Then it's "at 11 o'clock, see him?"
"No"
"12 o'clock, 50'"
"No."
"1 o'clock, 50' "
"Okay"
"Okay hell, cast!"
And so the angler starts casting, keeps looking at that damn back cast three or four times and then says
"Where is he?"

It's like teaching combat shooting, You wouldn't say," Now, watch your gun, watch your hand grab the gun, watch the barrel come out of the holster, watch the thumb cock the hammer, watch the finger pull the triger, now shoot!

It's much easer to remember that if the tip stops at 1, the loop will be tight, if the tip is to stop at 1, the rod handle stops at one, thus, just look out of the corner of your eye and watch the rod handle stop at 1. Immediately, shift your eyes back to your target and as soon as the target is acquired, cast.

Otherwise, if you actually watch the back cast, you will usually have almost finished your forecast before you've acquired the target. Like a bullet, once that line is on it's way, it's hard to change the direction.

Jack
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Old 11-30-2014, 03:00 PM
 
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Default Re: Loading the rod

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfglen View Post
Over the past almost 60 years I've had the chance to get a lot of fly fishing packed in there.

While I agree that you need to know what the fly line in back of you is doing, a caution beginners about watching it too much.

It's much easer to remember that if the tip stops at 1, the loop will be tight, if the tip is to stop at 1, the rod handle stops at one, thus, just look out of the corner of your eye and watch the rod handle stop at 1. Immediately, shift your eyes back to your target and as soon as the target is acquired, cast.

Otherwise, if you actually watch the back cast, you will usually have almost finished your forecast before you've acquired the target. Like a bullet, once that line is on it's way, it's hard to change the direction.

Jack
Jack,

I find that beginners, especially the ones that have spin fished, think that their rod tip is at 1 but really it is at 3. They have an incorrect perception created by years of muscle memory from spin fishing that depends wrist motion. When they cannot rely on their proprioception to determine the rod position, they require visual cues to correct what they think they are doing.

There are problems with watching your backcast while fishing; but in order to cast so you do not need to watch the backcast during fishing, the caster FIRST needs to know where his backcast is. I think this is best done while practicing the backcast when the goal of the practice is NOT to hit a target on the forward cast but to practice the casting stroke and timing that determines the direction and length of the backcast. When they build that muscle memory, then they no longer need to watch the backcast.

I had Thanksgiving dinner over at Nancy and Gary Borger's home. Gary is putting the final touches on a fly casting teaching DVD video that will sell for $15. I saw sections that were finished and I think it will be a wonderful resource for beginning casters. Gary showed me how he gets a beginner to stop at 1:00 and I plan to include this technique when I teach.

In part of the video, he teaches the Galway cast which was developed on the Galway River. This is a cast in which both the forward (toward the target) and back (away from the target) casts are made with forward casting strokes. So there is no backcast.

The Galway is the first casting stroke that is made in the Shadow Cast from the River Runs Through It.

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Galway cast fly fishing | How to learn this casting technique the easy way
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2014, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Loading the rod

That's why I teach students to look at their rod handle, if it is at l o'clock, so is the rod.

I see no problem in them looking over their shoulder to watch the line a few times while learning, but not turning their body as that changes all of the body movements.
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