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Old 03-11-2014, 06:16 AM
robmedina
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Default double haul question

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Old 03-11-2014, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: double haul question

Changing my mind
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: double haul question

Quote:
Originally Posted by robmedina View Post

What I noticed is that when I do my back casts the haul comes at 180 degrees of the rod but on my forward cast the haul comes at about 90 degrees- if that makes any sense.

Logic told me to do the forward cast at 180 degrees too but I always go early because I feel that I am loosing the momentum if I wait any longer than I am-

Any tips on how to get that forward cast?

I can shoot line out on that last forward cast but a lot of times I get that dreaded tailing loop!

Rob


There is no way to give a correct answer to your question. I'm not even sure what the 90 degrees and 180 degrees of rod angle are since you have not set a point of reference. 90 degrees relative to what?

Secondly, the optimum timing of a double haul depends on multiple factors. Have you ever noticed that very few of the experts articles tell you exactly WHEN you should haul? Why is that?

The reason is that the timing of the haul depends on how you cast and the equipment you are using. For example, if you make a backcast so that there is some slack in your fly line as you begin you forward cast, an earlier haul that removes that slack and straightens the fly line for the forward cast might improve you forward cast more than a later haul. Why? Because with an earlier haul and a straight fly line, you don't waste stroke length removing that slack.

But if you begin your forward cast with a perfectly straight line and no waves or slack, a late haul is best because it maximizes fly line velocity right before the rod stop.

Read Al Kye's FFF article on the double haul and how the fly line and fly rod used influences when the haul is performed and how fast a haul is made.

http://www.fedflyfishers.org/Portals....Al%20Kyte.pdf


There are several possible reasons why you are getting a tailing loop with that forward cast haul. One is that you are creeping the rod forward before your forward cast. This forces you to "jab" the fly rod during the forward cast causing a tip bounce during the cast.

Another cause is that the haul is too sudden and too early. Another is that you are not tipping the rod tip out of the way at the forward stop.

See the video on fly rod creep.


Read the following on tailing loops.

throwing tailing loops like crazy

Tight, strong loops that catch the fly back on the line?
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: double haul question

I can't see how it's possible to throw ANY fly line over 100' with anything other than an excellent forward and backcast.

Are you basing this upon the fact that you can *see the backing on your reel and you know you have a 100' fly line, or have you actually used a long meter tape to verify your distance? I've been out with people who've said they "can cast 100 feet" and then found that they're nowhere near this mark -- with snake-like loops of line laid out in front (and often a collapse at the fly end) and my tape spitting back closer to 60-70 feet more often. I haven't watched you cast so I obviously can't determine this, but I just can't imagine someone with an admittedly bad forward cast hitting 100'....or really even beyond 60-70'. That's just not been my experience. Beyond 70', to me, requires a pretty solid all-around cast.....longer distances require more attention to minor details in timing, loop size, hauling speed, trajectory, etc.

Also, with a mod/fast or fast 5-weight you should be pretty close to your max distance with ANY rod IMO. I don't find that there's much difference in my distance from my 5-8 weight rods, everything else being equal.

Do you have a video of your cast?

My wife has some issues with forward creep (and resulting tailing loops) as described by silver above -- very good advice from him as always. He's helped me quite a bit in developing my own cast.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: double haul question

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Old 03-11-2014, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: double haul question

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Originally Posted by robmedina View Post
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Hi Rob,

I am no expert, I can get my 3 weights out about 30 yards. I see the guys here giving some good feedback.

Lots of great casters around here, I am not one. So I hope you hang out and provide us all some insight as to where you fish and provide us all with some feedback as well.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: double haul question

Something that has helped my double haul tremendously is to feed line into my back cast. If youve never done this, it can be a bit awkward at first because most casters feed line into their forward false cast.. which I do also. but on my last false back cast, I will feed line then pinch it and start my haul. This loads the rod deeply and launches the forward cast effortlessly.

but, if youre throwing line 105' we probably cant say much to increase that.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: double haul question

thanks guys.ill figure it out.
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: double haul question

Just going to add:

Don't focus so much on your double haul as you do on good, hard stops and tight loops both backward and forward. Shooting line and adding a double haul (to me) are secondary to this IMO. The double haul is excellent for avoiding fatigue when you're casting all day and it certainly adds line speed and facilitates shooting for distance, but you don't want it to be a crutch to compensate for wimpy stops or wide loops .

That's my take -- just an opinion.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: double haul question

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbineblade View Post
Just going to add:

Don't focus so much on your double haul as you do on good, hard stops and tight loops both backward and forward. Shooting line and adding a double haul (to me) are secondary to this IMO. The double haul is excellent for avoiding fatigue when you're casting all day and it certainly adds line speed and facilitates shooting for distance, but you don't want it to be a crutch to compensate for wimpy stops or wide loops .

That's my take -- just an opinion.
Thanks for your reply-

I can do all that you say with line management up to 50 feet. but when it comes to casting further it seems that when I do the stop on the forward cast I get that dreaded tailing, or closed loop. Now I know it could probably be all timing- but I try so many times and it seems as though when I stop following the " guide" lines I do better.

Lefty Kreh states that no two people cast the same- as we all have different body mechanics. Peter Hayes certainly does not do the traditional cast and supposedly achieves 170' cast. (Of course in every video I have seen of him I have not seen his loops)

I think the best thing for me would be for me to video myself casting and see where I am going wrong.

Yesterday on the water I got nice tight loops by waiting to haul on the forward cast until the rod was in front of me- that helped tremendously with the closed loops but I could not get any further than about 50-60 feet in thigh high water. Granted I was not using a stripping basket so my intermediate line was submerged while false casting thus providing resistance.

Like someone posed the question- "How do you get to Carnegie hall?" practice, practice, practice.
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