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Old 05-13-2014, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

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Originally Posted by wbaxl View Post
It seems as good as time as any to make my first post, well here goes i'm trying to learn the the double haul to speed up my line speed an beat the wind i've been dealing with. I have encountered a problem though, on my backcast when i make the first haul (generally to around my left waist pocket) i have trouble getting the line to feed back out the tip of the rod; so i can start my 2nd haul but the line is still slack a little bit so i cant make it without reaching well below my preferred area. And i am wondering if anyone with more skill than I can give me some advice as to how to fix my little problem. Thanks.
Wow, that's nearly exactly what I was having trouble with before I got hands on help. And you describe where my problem was coming from!!

Simply, your first haul is too long and you're asking for too much line to feed back out before starting the forward cast. Just shorten that first pull down to a foot, but don't let it get slow, a real snappy fast pull. Now it'll feed back out and the slack that's killing you at the beginning of the forward cast won't be there. (Use the same short fast pull forward.)

That's what worked for me, hope this helps.
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

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Originally Posted by james w 3 3 View Post
Wow, that's nearly exactly what I was having trouble with before I got hands on help. And you describe where my problem was coming from!!

Simply, your first haul is too long and you're asking for too much line to feed back out before starting the forward cast. Just shorten that first pull down to a foot, but don't let it get slow, a real snappy fast pull. Now it'll feed back out and the slack that's killing you at the beginning of the forward cast won't be there. (Use the same short fast pull forward.)

That's what worked for me, hope this helps.
James, after I watched that video and figured a quick tug was what I needed to do I can do it preety easily now. But im trying to improve to pulling down to my waist instead of a couple inches past my reel, just so its more effective and worth my while if im gonna do it. Thanks
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

You're really hindering yourself if the line is dirty or sticky. Having the mass of a lot of line out and good momentum from a good and proper acceleration and stop will go a long way toward easing the pain of learning the double haul. Believe it or not pantomiming the actions without a rod in your hand helps too as does visualizing the perfect cast but with that you might need to do a few perfect casts to be able to visualize it.
What wjc said is spot-on too about the sideways, lay down cast. That also works very well to help with the timing needed to haul late in the cast. I tell people not to haul until the rod has passed their 12:00 or halfway in the stroke. Once you have that down slowly tweak the haul to even later in the stroke.
One of the biggest errors that, though not catastrophic, can ugly-up the cast is starting the haul when you start the stroke. I think it's popular because it feels so intuitive and takes away a big part of the timing issue.
Good luck with the journey!
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

Quote:
Originally Posted by james w 3 3 View Post
Wow, that's nearly exactly what I was having trouble with before I got hands on help. And you describe where my problem was coming from!!

Simply, your first haul is too long and you're asking for too much line to feed back out before starting the forward cast. Just shorten that first pull down to a foot, but don't let it get slow, a real snappy fast pull. Now it'll feed back out and the slack that's killing you at the beginning of the forward cast won't be there. (Use the same short fast pull forward.)

That's what worked for me, hope this helps.
Right on the head! I've seen so many people try to make a long haul with no speed of the rod tip or the line hand at the end of the back cast and that's where it counts.

It's like making a running broad jump. It's not how far you run toward the foul line, it's how fast you're doing when you get there.

Very little is said of the use of the left WRIST in making a single or double haul. Video tape casters and you will usually find that those who make it look so easy are actually using a slight wrist snap during the last 15 degrees of the rod's arc to 1 o'clock and the rod stops for a split second, often too fast for the human eye to detect while the tip unloads and then moves to 2 o'clock.

This is more so for fast action graphite rods than for cane or glass
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:43 PM
 
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbaxl View Post
It seems as good as time as any to make my first post, well here goes i'm trying to learn the the double haul to speed up my line speed an beat the wind i've been dealing with. I have encountered a problem though, on my backcast when i make the first haul (generally to around my left waist pocket) i have trouble getting the line to feed back out the tip of the rod; so i can start my 2nd haul but the line is still slack a little bit so i cant make it without reaching well below my preferred area. And i am wondering if anyone with more skill than I can give me some advice as to how to fix my little problem. Thanks.
Since this post has been revived, I guess I can put in my 2 cents worth of comments.

As you have noticed, it is not the "Down" haul that is difficult for beginners. It is the "Up" return of line so they can get ready for the second "Down - Up" haul, and so on. When beginners try to teach themselves, they get the DOWN part but not the UP part. So as Mel says, the haul is a new word = “DownUp”



Initially, when you pantomime as Mel Krieger suggests, you can time the haul to occur at the exact time that you move the rod at the START of the cast. So for the first backcast, as you take the rod back, you "DownUp" haul. When you then start the forward cast, you "DownUp" haul again. It makes doing the haul much easier if you time it with the start of the casting stroke.

However, that is often NOT the most effective time to haul. Have you ever noticed that very few of the experts’ articles tell you exactly WHEN you should haul? Why is that?

The reason is that the timing of the haul depends on how you cast and the equipment you are using. For example, if you make a backcast so that there is some slack in your fly line as you begin you forward cast, an earlier haul that removes that slack and straightens the fly line for the forward cast might improve the forward cast more than a later haul. Why? Because with an earlier haul and a straight fly line, you don't waste stroke length removing that slack.

But if you begin your forward cast with a perfectly straight line and no waves or slack, a late haul is best because it maximizes fly line velocity right before the rod stop.

Read Al Kyte's FFF article on the double haul and how the fly line and fly rod used influences when the haul is performed and how fast a haul is made.

http://www.fedflyfishers.org/Portals....Al%20Kyte.pdf

As you become a better caster, you will find you do not need to remove slack and with the WF floating fly line that most of us use, a later haul is more optimum.

So use the pantomime to get the initial timing down, even if the timing is not perfect, a double haul is better than no haul.

In the video, Mel says to pantomime the hauls with only 5-6 feet of fly line out of the guides. Notice that he makes a long haul on the video above. When you are actually learning to haul, you are learning with a short cast. Because the cast is short, there is less time to complete the up return of line before the next cast has to begin. That is why you can’t complete the up motion when you do the length of haul that Mel does. It is not that your haul is too long in absolute terms, but it is too long relative to the cast you are performing.

I NEVER disagree with Mel Krieger. However, when casting 5-6 feet of fly line, I believe there is NO WAY you can complete the UP motion before the next cast has to start.

The most common error is that they do not finish reposition the hauling hand after the haul. The double hauling motion is a DOWN-UP motion. Beginners get the DOWN part but not the UP part. To perform the second haul, you need to reposition your hauling hand back up so it can haul again.

The second common error in a beginner's double haul is timing. For advanced casting, the haul comes later in the casting stroke when the line is going at near maximum speed just before the stop.

The third most common error is that they haul too much line. A longer haul means that it takes longer to reposition the line hand. The longer the DOWN motion, the longer the UP motion must be. So when learning the double haul, use short hauls at first! This will prevent problem with line repositioning. Error 1 and 3 are obviously related.

As a beginner, you should practice at first with short hauls to get the timing down. Don't move the hauling hand over longer distances which then take longer to reposition for the next haul. Longer hauls can mess up your timing with short casts. You can gradually increase the hauls when you are doing the shorter hauls correctly. The rule is that you can make short hauls with longer casts but not long hauls with shorter casts.

The fourth most common error is that they rotate their bodies to bring the hauling hand back up to the rod after backcast cast haul, so they can haul on the forward cast. That changes the rod path and can change the loop.

To improve your haul, it is important to match the direction of your haul (line pull) to the direction the rod is pointing. When you haul line and release/shoot line into the haul, the line is “gathered” by the stripping (first) guide. If you pull at a steep angle to the fly rod, the line has to go around the guide and there are frictional losses. The stripping guide’s function is to gather line and align it with the rest of rod guides. If the haul is not aligned with the rod guides, you will get line slap and line waves on the shoot.

The closer your haul path is to the way the fly rod is pointing, the less energy is lost in the haul and the line shoot.

See 4min 30 secs into the video below for changing the direction of your haul to match the direction the fly rod is pointing.


In addition to the Mel Krieger teaching video, here are a couple more teaching references:

Joan Wulff:


Joan Wulff: The Double Haul | MidCurrent

Pete Kutzer of Orvis:

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Last edited by silver creek; 12-18-2014 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

Silver Creek always says this stuff the way I'd have said it if I knew what I was talking about . . .
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

Silver, in the Prescott video, do you know who the 'he' is that Prescott continually mentions?
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:42 PM
 
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

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Originally Posted by rangerrich99 View Post
Silver Creek always says this stuff the way I'd have said it if I knew what I was talking about . . .
That is very kind thing you said. Thank you.

The truth is that I've made every beginner's mistake when I learned to double haul.

When you've done as many things wrong as I have, it is easier to remember all the possible ways things can go wrong and easier to describe how to make the corrections. I still am not always happy with my casting because I know I still mess up.

Please don't think I am even close to perfect. My wife knows better.
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Old 12-19-2014, 12:47 PM
 
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

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Silver, in the Prescott video, do you know who the 'he' is that Prescott continually mentions?
The person on the YouTube video is David Eubanks. Prescott Smith is the “he” that David is talking about. David is doing a review of the DVD Taming the Wind: Prescott Smith Reveals His Secrets & New Techniques for Casting Into the Wind”.

If you watch the video on Youtube, the written introduction says:

“A review by David Ebanks of the flycasting DVD "Taming the Wind: Prescott Smith Reveals His Secrets & New Techniques for Casting Into the Wind."

A breakdown of the basic techniques covered in Mr. Smith's instructional DVD, and the benefits of this revolutionary casting style. Though this DVD has been out for a while, I'd heard very little about it. So, I bought it, watched it, studied it, practiced the techniques, and used it to help teach a brand new fly caster. Guess what: IT WORKS! I really wish I'd found this DVD years ago. I KNOW I'd have gotten better faster.

Even though I cover some basic stuff in it, there's plenty more there, trust me. Do yourself a favor and find a copy. Doesn't matter where we are--the river, the lake, the beach, or on the flats--the wind is our biggest challenge...rise to the challenge with the movie.”


Taming the Wind: Prescott Smith Reveals His Secrets & New Techniques for Casting into the Wind (Fly Fishing Tutorial DVD):Amazon:Books Taming the Wind: Prescott Smith Reveals His Secrets & New Techniques for Casting into the Wind (Fly Fishing Tutorial DVD):Amazon:Books
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Last edited by silver creek; 12-19-2014 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 12-20-2014, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: The basics of a double haul

If I understand your problem, you might be ending your downward haul too late - after you stop the fly rod. Because your line hand is too far down, you can't possibly give back line unless you do it too quickly and therefore add slack.

Try shortening ( and possibly slowing) your downward haul.

Fight Wind: Learn The Double Haul | Randy Kadish

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