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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2015, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

Not really a casting solution, but a timing one: A few years ago, I finally got around to putting my pontoon in the back of my pickup and trucked it to a local mountain lake. I got there and the wind was so high that this 10 acre lake had whitecaps on it. There was a 20 foot band of mud extending from shore where the waves had churned up the lake bottom. Launching the pontoon was out of the questions, but I didn't want to go home. I had to cast nearly directly into the wind, not ideal.

What I did was this. I noticed that even in high winds, there are momentary lapses in the wind, when the speed slows down to only about 10MPH for a few seconds before the next gust hit. I held my nymph in my hand, and launched it during those less windy moments. It usually worked so I could get my fly out about 5 feet past the mud; in fact, that mud line was money, as the trout seemed to be cruising it, perhaps picking up insects kicked up by the surf.

So, pick your moments to cast for those short intervals between gusts.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

I know this is not the "right" solution ... but for me, fishing is more important than "fly" fishing. When the wind is too high for comfortable fly fishing, I go to conventional gear. I can use a bait caster or spin fishing rig in higher winds than I can a fly rod.

If you're reducing your fishing methods to "fly" only ... I feel like there's a lot of fishing situations you're missing.
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:11 PM
 
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

I may be wrong but I think Nevadanstig was looking for ways to compensate for the wind when dry fly fishing, at least that was my read on his question.

One can always short line nymph or indicator nymph in the wind, or chuck and duck as Axle27 suggested.

Those would be my solutions if it was really too windy to cast a dry fly.
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
I may be wrong but I think Nevadanstig was looking for ways to compensate for the wind when dry fly fishing, at least that was my read on his question.

One can always short line nymph or indicator nymph in the wind, or chuck and duck as Axle27 suggested.

Those would be my solutions if it was really too windy to cast a dry fly.
I was nymphing, but with small midges and nymphs, nothing with much meat. I think the biggest fly I had on was #18 pt.

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---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikechell View Post
I know this is not the "right" solution ... but for me, fishing is more important than "fly" fishing. When the wind is too high for comfortable fly fishing, I go to conventional gear. I can use a bait caster or spin fishing rig in higher winds than I can a fly rod.

If you're reducing your fishing methods to "fly" only ... I feel like there's a lot of fishing situations you're missing.
I'm a fan of all types of fishing. But I guess I'm a little particular too. For me, if you're going for trout in a small river or streams, it's flies. But I love attacking ponds and small lakes for bass with a baitcaster. Been known to have too much to drink while sitting on a dock going after catfish and mud bugs too

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Old 12-21-2015, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

I came across this while researching another topic and thought I would add it to the conversation for comment:

"I believe, that casting a heavier line into the wind is what works best. Of course there will come a point when the line will be too heavy. But uplining one AFFTA class instead of underlining one AFFTA class always offered me increased distance especially into a headwind.

Casting a lighter line might offer me a slight increase in the rate of acceleration. At the same time this increase in line speed will result in air resistance increasing in square. Therefore I don't think here is much to win in summary.
But using the heavier line offers me a better relation between lines mass and its amount of surface. Less surface means less air drag/friction. Force = mass times acceleration. Acceleration might be slightly reduced but mass will be significant increased. In summary I think I provide significant increased force against the air resistance by uplining. And again the air resistance will not be increased in square here.

I might be wrong, but my personal casting results are very clear: Uplining increases my max distance, not only but especially against a head wind."
- Bernd Ziesche

Source of comment:

The Board • View topic - casting into headwind
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

It is nice to have a specialty line for windy situations. I have a Rio outbound short that works great fir this. I am mostly smallmouth fishing so it is no big deal to throw streamers. When it kicks up around me either fish this line or a small river with lots of trees to help shelter wind.

When I am trout fishing I might go with a 5wt on the same stream I normally would use a 3wt.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:04 PM
 
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

For the casting geeks, here is a 500 frame per second analysis of a series of fly casts performed by two expert casters. The maximum fly line velocity obtained was an average of 24 m/s or about 54 mph (see figure 2 and Table 1). That is the maximum line speed these experts could achieve.

A 10 mph headwind would increase drag by almost 30%, a 20 mph head wind would increase drag by 43%, and a 40 mph headwind by 67%

That is why casting into a headwind by is so difficult. With lesser line speed, and larger loop size, the aerodynamic drag increase is even greater.

http://www.flycastinginstitute.com/e...ast_102507.pdf

I showed that the maximum line velocity at the fly rod tip at the stop was 54 mph in the example (Figure 2 and Table 10 above.

IMMEDIATELY after the stop the fly line begins to slow down due to aerodynamic drag. In still air, the only drag is due to the forward line velocity. Since drag is proportional v^2, as forward line velocity decreases, there is an ever greater proportional drop in aerodynamic drag from the value at max velocity.

However, in a headwind, the line speed may drop BUT the wind velocity does not, so aerodynamic drag remains much higher. Eventually, if the wind velocity is high enough, the drag is greater than the remaining forward energy of the line and the line will actually be pushed back.

Meanwhile gravity is pulling the line down. The higher the cast is directed above the horizon, the longer it takes for the line to drop. Should the the line still be in the air when the wind velocity overcomes the forward line energy, the fly line will be pushed back toward the caster UNTIL gravity drops the line to the water or ground.

That is the reason we want to direct the cast at a downward angle - this leaves minimal vertical distance as the cast extends for the line to be blown back. There is a difference between directing the line downward from a vertical cast and doing a Reverse Belgian cast in which the entire forward cast is low and parallel to the water.

In the overhand cast directed downward, the rod stop is higher say at about 10 o'clock. As the loop unfurls after the stop, the lower limb of the loop is stationary and is fixed by the rod tip. This section of line has NO FORWARD VELOCITY and therefore, NO FORWARD ENERGY. This stationary downward angled section of line acts as a SAIL. It is a thin sail, but a sail none the less. It is a thin sail that is at an angle to the wind, and so it presents a proportion of its surface into the wind.

What happens is that the wind creates a backward drag on that line. The line does not actually move backward because the forward loop of the line is still moving and unrolling forward. BUT what this backward drag does is to consume some of the forward kinetic energy and slows down the forward velocity of the loop. Eventually the forward energy is consumed and the loop straightens OR the line does not extend and it is blown back.

Now when we make a low sidearm forward cast, the line from the rod tip to the unrolling loop is straight into the path of the wind. So the drag along the line surface is minimized; it is NOT angled into the wind. Furthermore, the entire line is going through a section of wind velocity that is lower so there is less overall drag. Finally, when the forward energy does die out, the entire line is at a lower level and there will be less blow back before the line hits the water.

Here is a graph of the wind gradient above water. It is from a study done for sailing ships, a higher sail grabs more wind.

Click the image to open in full size.

I stated above that drag is proportional to velocity squared (v^2) so each little bit of decrease in wind velocity closer to the water surface means a longer cast.

Note also that the MAXIMUM line speed generated by ELITE casters is 54 mph. So any additional facing wind effect increases drag tremendously since the resultant drag is based the Square of the base forward line velocity.

That is why a 10 mph headwind, whihc would increase effective line speed from 54 mph to 64 mph (an 18% increase) would increase drag by almost 30%, a 20 mph head wind would increase drag by 43%, and a 40 mph headwind by 67%
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevadanstig View Post
Wind is a constant here. I feel like I've gotten pretty used to it. I'm decent at working a single haul and slowly improving a double. But the other day in high winds, I was having trouble getting smaller flies to turn over. My loops in the fly line looked great, and the leader was turning over decently about half way down, but the flies themselves were getting caught in the wind. Casting upstream into a headwind, the leader would basically fold in half about 2/3 way down and the flies would actually land downstream of nearly half the l eader.
I haven't had this problem before. But with winter, I was fishing smaller/lighter flies than usual.
Anything I can do to help this situation, or is it just part of fishing into a headwind? Gusts were around 45-50

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There is the POSSIBILITY that on the leader there might be a too quick step down of stiffness. Try the old Al McClane leader formulae. That might help. Also try making the back cast high, tucking the leader and the forward cast at a 45 degree angle, keeping it lower and out of the wind.
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfglen View Post
There is the POSSIBILITY that on the leader there might be a too quick step down of stiffness. Try the old Al McClane leader formulae. That might help. Also try making the back cast high, tucking the leader and the forward cast at a 45 degree angle, keeping it lower and out of the wind.
Havent the slightest clue about leader formulas. I just use mono rio powerflex 9ft, 3x.

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Old 12-21-2015, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Tips for high wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
The maximum fly line velocity obtained was an average of 24 m/s or about 54 mph (see figure 2 and Table 1). That is the maximum line speed these experts could achieve.
Silver, they were only casting 10 meters of line and weren't going for max tip speed. What they were doing was trying to figure out what percentage the total energy contained in a bent rod contributes to a cast when it straightens back out. They are talking somewhere around 17% on a 10 meter cast.

I don't really think it matters much from a practical standpoint. I think haul timing and release timing are far more important if one wants to optimise line speed.

(added for clarity). The above paragraph is about casting in general, not just about casting in the wind, which I got my 2 cents worth in about already.
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Last edited by wjc; 12-21-2015 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Clarity
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