Beginner in need of hope

petyot

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Hi there,

I am totally new to fly fishing. I am planning a trip to Pulaski this fall. I bought my stuff a few weeks ago (Fenwick Aetos 8wt, Pflueger Patriarch reel with 8wt Scientific Angler floating line) and I have the summer to be ready for my trip.

I have read almost every posts on this great forum :roll eyes:, I have watched every video from Mel Krieger, Tom Rosenbauer, the Orvis learning center... I have read a few blogs.

It looks so easy on those video :starwars:

Well, yesterday I tried to cast a little bit in my backyard... Let me confirm that it looks easier than it is! :eek:

My best cast was around 30 feet. Accuracy was not so bad but I was able to tie a few knots in my line without touching it, just in the air :eek:. My line got tangled in my reel and around my cork handle a few times. Not a complete disaster but not very satisfying...

I will try to find someone to teach me the basic around here.

Give me some hope, how was your learning curve ? very long ? not so long ?

Thanks!

Pierre
 

jpbfly

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:welcomean to the forum Pierre(sounds french)....don't worry you'll cast very well soon,try to find a Jedi (maybe here... there may be someone from your area)or a guide and casting instructor:)
 

mcnerney

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Pierre

That is a great idea to get a casting instructor to help out, you will be surprised at how fast you will progress with a little professional first hand help.

Casting is mostly a timing issue. Sometimes it helps to turn your body slightly to your right (if right hand casting) and on the back cast, turn your head and watch the fly line as it extends behind you, just as it extends fully, start your forward cast. Beginners will almost always start the forward cast before the back cast straightens (hence the recommendation to turn and watch the back cast until you can feel the timing).
Also be aware that most beginners when they first start casting, they over rotate the cast (say from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock, like a windshield wiper) and they find they can't cast very far, because the tip of the rod is rotating too much. Shorten the stroke to something like (2 o'clock to 10 o'clock), it doesn't have to be exact, but hopefully you get the idea of what I'm trying to say.
 

scotty macfly

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It's good that you're practicing, and Pete from Orvis has wonderful videos on casting. Here's another person you may have heard of who is well respected in this sport.

lefty kreh on fly casting - Bing video

Lefty keeps it simple, and it works. Keep in mind that when you watch casting videos, everyone casts a little differently, but just learning the basics can get you casting in YOUR own rhythm shortly.

Mcnerney gave good advice, and I would apply the watching the back cast as he stated. Also, here's my 2 cents worth, but strip off about 20ft. of line from your reel, and lay it in a straight line. Take your rod with the tip down low, and smoothly with acceleration lift the rod tip, like you would on a normal cast, and stop the rod for just a second, and then cast forward and let the line fly out in front of you and follow the end of the line down with your rod. If you can do this a number of times with the line laying in a straight line on the ground, strip off a little more the next day, and do it again.

This exercise will help with laying the fly down, and help with feeling the rod load and unload to help with your timing. It just takes a few minutes a day.
 

boisker

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Go spend a morning with a casting instructor.... You'll be months ahead than if you proceed on your own watching vids.... Get the instructor to set your basics right and then you can pick up other bits from vids.... Well worth the money for a couple of hours
 

petyot

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Thanks to all for the advises.

I made some search on the net and I found an local instructor. He sounds like a knowledgeable and fun guy.

He teach to beginners in a local fly fishing association. Lessons are closed for the season in the association but he is willing to teach me privately :thmbup:

I will try to organise some lessons with two friends in the weeks to come.

I am sure it will help a lot!
 

bill_s

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There is hope!

Hi Petyot,
I started fly fishing about two years ago. I did not know anyone who fly fished and have never taken a lesson. Same as you, I bought a beginners combination set and went at it.

Relax, it is no big deal. You will get there quicker then you think. Now, I am no expert, most likely only a mediocre or worse caster, but I have much fun and truly enjoy the sport.

You can do it. It will take a little longer then a few practice sessions, but if you start fishing more often, you will be ready for your trip.

Being a novice myself I will not give you any suggestions, but here are a few observations:

1) Have a friend make a video of you casting. Guess what, you think your stopping at 2....but most likely you are not. :) I was shocked when I saw a video of myself, I was certainly not doing what I was trying to do. For me doing a 10 to 2, meant feeling a 11 to 12.

2) Forget about casting. Go fishing.
What really changed the world for me, spring came, the Bluegills came out and I stopped practicing casting and went fishing. I quickly could do a roll cast and enjoyed many days of great Bluegill fishing with all sorts of flies using only a roll cast.

What I did not realize, was that just spending the time with the rod, even though I was only roll casting, my body was learning how a fly rod reacts, I was learning how to make it work. Unconsciously I started turning my roll casts into full casts. Before I knew it....I was casting.

So, go fishing and have some fun. Become friends with your rod.

Good luck and your trip and best wishes.

PS...now, if you think casting was a challenge, wait till you start tying those size 20 flies. Oh my, they still kick my butt! :)

Cheers
 

fredaevans

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Go spend a morning with a casting instructor.... You'll be months ahead than if you proceed on your own watching vids.... Get the instructor to set your basics right and then you can pick up other bits from vids.... Well worth the money for a couple of hours

Sooo yes! Chills my blood to read 'I'm new at this and purchased ...,' usually at the recommendation of the sales person. :rolleyes: Folks, new at this, start with the casting instructor as they (if they don't you picked the wrong person) will usually bring several 'set up's' for you to test cast/learn/etc.

When it comes to 'gear' "One size does NOT fit all!" With spey rods I'll bring at least four (some times six) complete set ups and let the 'newbie' find what fits. We've all had a go at casting someone elses rig and did a 'now this is cool' to 'now this is a total clunker. 'Eye of the Beholder' sort of thing.

Which is one of the things that's always been of interest is the number of same weight rods a large manufacturer has to sell and other than reading 'reviews' who knows what would be 'right for you?'

With top of the line equipment (rod/reel/line/etc) you can easily drop a thousand dollars, the in-shop rod wiggle is what you based your whole 'I'll take it' on that? One local shop does a 'on river' rod test every couple of months for potentional customers who get to try before they buy. End game is went from a small shop to the largest here in Southern Oregon.

To make this more interesting he lives in a very heavy (Summer) tourest town so lots of walk in customers with time on their hands ... if out of the area usually lots of discresionary income! :surprise: Last time I heard he went from just 'him' to now two part time time staff.

The hesitation he meets is met with 'Don't worry about lugging the rod tube around I'll ship it to you.' I've heard he even offers to cover the cost of shipping; sounds 'magnamous' (spelling intended) but that probably costs him fifty bucks to sell a grand or more's worth of 'stuff.' Sounds like a good trade off to me?:D

fae
 

Ard

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I learned way before there were VCR tapes - DVD's - or You Tube.

For ten years I was a hacker, thrashing around with a fly rod relying on the gift of good hand to eye coordination to avoid hooking my own head. After those ten years of no instruction whatever and thinking I was doing OK I had an experience that changed everything. You can read about it in the short story from the forum blog. There are 2 parts because the blog limits the number of words per entry.

Part One: http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/blogs/hardyreels/124-we-dont-get-way-overnight.html

Part Two: http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...s/123-we-dont-get-way-overnight-part-two.html

My advice may seem obtuse but I give it time to time, everyone today is looking to their computers or some other electronic device to teach them what can in some cases take months of dedicated hands on practice to achieve. If you read the story you will learn what I did, it worked but I put time and effort into it. I studied and practiced and have been good ever since. Because of what I did I have been able to enjoy 38 years of fly casting and fishing. I don't put much stock into the ten years prior to my experience but today and even in the 1980's there is very little I can't overcome in my fishing hobby.

I hope that the tale of what happened and how it turned out will be helpful to you and perhaps some others who may need some fine tuning..........

Ard
 

petyot

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Thanks to everyone for the advises.

I hope nobody understood from my previous message that I was hoping to learn to cast just by watching videos... I KNOW that it is going to take a LOT of practice to be able to cast easily and to enjoy it.

I was just expressing my frustration for my initial failure from doing something that "appears" quite simple when done by instructors on videos...

As for the rod and reel that I bought, I guess a lot of beginners follow the same path. You start with a kit recommended by a seller in store. I went to a specialized store in my area and I have trusted the seller to sell me something that was appropriate to my purpose of fishing the Salmon River this fall...

I have read a few threads in this forum about fly fishing being elitist. I still don't know if it is elitist but let me tell you that it is intimidating.

I am the kind of guy who reads a lot before buying anything and even if I think that I have read a lot I still would be unable to walk in a store and choose the "right" gears for my needs in fly fishing by myself.

So, elitist? maybe not... Intimidating, definitely!
 

fr8dog

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Don't be intimidated by this. It's not some "skull and bones" secret elite angling fraternity. It's a fun way to mess with fish. Stick and a string when you get down to it. Takes some practice to make it work. Lots of practice to be good at it. I'm not into the whole "Zen spirituality" thing. I just enjoy fishing. I prefer to fly fish over other methods. It's relaxing and I don't try to overthink it.

An instructor is a pretty good idea. It'll cut down on the frustration level and get you going the right direction. Just remember to have fun. Nobody knows it all. We're still learning or we wouldn't be reading this.

Oh, welcome aboard!
 
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Ard

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I hope you can appreciate that in my case I have seen lots of folks to who reading a book seems to be something they aren't interested in. My intention was a sort of tough love, to share how I managed to learn to cast among many other things. Please do keep us informed of your progress,

Ard
 

silver creek

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I learned way before there were VCR tapes - DVD's - or You Tube.

For ten years I was a hacker, thrashing around with a fly rod relying on the gift of good hand to eye coordination to avoid hooking my own head. After those ten years of no instruction whatever and thinking I was doing OK I had an experience that changed everything. ....

Part One: http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/blogs/hardyreels/124-we-dont-get-way-overnight.html

Part Two: http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...s/123-we-dont-get-way-overnight-part-two.html


Ard
I suggest every Newbie read Ard's story.

My own accounts somewhat mirrors his. I have been fishing since I was about 6 years old. When I was in Utah for my Radiology Residency, I decided it was time to learn how to fly fish. So I bought a quality Fenwick FF series Fiberglass Fly Rod, a Berkley fly reel and a Cortland fly line. I got a copy of Jim Green’s Fly Casting From the Beginning. After all, I had been fishing for well over 25 years and how hard could it be?



How hard? Just about impossible BECAUSE I had been spin fishing for so long. My muscle memory was programed for a spin fisher’s windshield wiper casting motion. I even took a trip to the Provo River, hoping that moving water might help me cast. It was a disaster.

There was no internet. There was no fly video instruction. I put the rod, reel and line away until I could afford some personal instruction.

Fast forward several years until I finished my medical training and had some disposable income. I signed my wife and I up for a weekend Fenwick Fly Fishing class taught by Gary Borger. He was the Midwest Director for the Fenwick courses and the Midwest Editor for Fly Fisherman Magazine. In one weekend, I had a basic set of casting exercises and I knew what a proper casting motion looked and felt like. I could cast and I had an introduction to entomology and fly fishing techniques. What I did not know at the time was that Gary lived in the same city I did and that our friendship was just beginning.

So my “Old Man’ was a thirty something Gary Borger. Gary would go on to make the very first fly fishing instructional video for Scientific Anglers and then videos and books under his own company. I lucked out.

Here are segments from his original video for you to view.


#1 - Introduction and insects​


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvSDjHgo0UY[/ame]



#2 - Roll cast and knots, shotgunning riffles​


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ksa8KmVWuo[/ame]



#3 - Overhead pick up and lay down cast, false casting, reach mend, parachute down and across downstream mend​


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_C1EotGPlY[/ame]



#4 -Midges​


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbUFUMwgqWo[/ame]



#5 - Caddis, Stonefly, Sinktip line & Leisering lift.​


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WZbM1H8k0Y[/ame]



#6 - Brooks method, Stoneflies,​


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plfVb30yFyY[/ame]

Gary has told me a few stories about the filming of his videos.

I do know that some that video was filmed at $3 Bridge before they took the old wooden bridge down and replaced it with the metal span.

Gary told me the story of one day when the film crew set up on the bridge, and he was downstream getting ready for the director to start filming. That was in the days of 35mm film and it was expensive to burn film expecting Gary to catch a trout on command.

Gary was set up on a spot that he was sure held fish. So when the director called, "Action!", Gary cast and hooked into a good fish. He fought that fish for quite a while, and by the time he brought that fish into the net, quite a crowd had gathered on the bridge. It turned out to be a big whitefish, disappointing Gary, the director and the crowd.

Another time Gary and the crew were setting up at Buffalo Ford on the Yellowstone River in Yellowstone Park. Allow me to digress with a bit of a backstory. The illustrator for Gary's first two books, "Naturals" and "Nymphing," was our mutual friend Bob Pils, who was a commercial artist at Wausau Insurance Company, the sponsor of 60 minutes on CBS in the 70's.

Bob Pils taught at Gary's midwestern Fenwick Fly Fishing Schools, and Bob had two sons who are fantastic fly fishers. The younger Andy Pils was about 10 years old at the time and he was fishing at Buffalo Ford several days earlier. I've seen Andy out fish anglers 3 times his age including yours truly, and this time was no exception. Andy was out fishing and out catching everyone around him. So picture little Andy Pils and hold that thought.

Then comes the Scientific Anglers/3M film crew to Buffalo Ford. After filming, there was an old curmudgeon, who said that the film crew should have been there several day earlier to film the kid who was out fishing everyone, implying that this kid was better than the guy who they were filming, who was Gary. The old guy then asks Gary who he was. Without skipping a beat, Gary replied, "Lefty Kreh."
 
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petyot

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I hope you can appreciate that in my case I have seen lots of folks to who reading a book seems to be something they aren't interested in. My intention was a sort of tough love, to share how I managed to learn to cast among many other things. Please do keep us informed of your progress,

Ard
I understand very well. I have read your story and I found it inspiring.

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

I must say that your are all very generous with your time and advises!

I really appreciate that.

That proves that your are not a bunch of elistist angler looking at the rookie with disdain ;) (but it is still a little bit intimidating... :eek:)

This is really a great forum! :thumbsup:
 

angledangle

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Two words

Roll Cast

If you feel the call of "A River Runs Through It" make sure you carry extra leaders and you check behind you for trees, people, bushes, shrubs, grass............... Seriously just focus on roll casting and find a casting instructor for the fancy stuff.:D

My frustration greatly decreased when my inner McLean was put in check.
 

Ard

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I'm glad to see that you were OK with the way I said what I said. I try to keep replies friendly and helpful but sometimes the only way to say what I think is to say what I think.

It is not impossible to learn how to work fly rods & lines without an instructor. In reality a good book can fill the shoes of the instructor quite well and there are no time constraints on the lessons. To read and view illustrations at ones own pace may allow for even fuller comprehension of the information. Everyone has a different mind, some can watch another person preform a task and then take the tools and do it themselves flawlessly. Others may benefit from being able to read instruction word by word and develop a comprehensive mental picture before attempting the action themselves.

Even those of us who may have friends or acquaintances who are proficient at casting with fly rods would need for those persons to be able to instruct in a manner that will connect. Many times people who post here don't have any such support structure and are looking for advice on how to go forward. I always point to a good book like that one by McNally. If you choose to look for one be sure to get "Fly Fishing" by Tom McNally not any other titles. Right before he passed away there was a compilation called The Complete Book of Fly Fishing. I have compared that book to the original and found that the original contains more of what a beginner may need that the other versions.

In this hobby you need desire and ability. The desire is usually easy to locate but sometimes the ability can take some work :)

Ard
 

petyot

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Thanks again for your time. The old book from McNally looks hard to find... I will be in Boston for the weekend and will try to find it in a library


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 

hokiehunter07

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I fiddled off and on with fly fishing for years because I couldn't figure out how to cast. A generous church member gave me a Shakespeare 7/8 wt when I was about 14. I've never caught a fish on it.

At about 20 I found a courtland 5/6 in the trunk of my dad's car. I fiddled with that for a few years but was never able to cast more than about 30 feet (chasing smallmouth with size 2-6 poppers and clousers).

It wasn't until I started reading forums, watching the Orvis 101 videos, and talking to guys at the local shop that I figured some things out.

First a noodle of a 5 wt is going to have a hard time throwing a 1/0 clouser with cheap line and a 5x leader. Your rod, line, leader, and fly all have to work together. Get one component vastly off from the others and you'll struggle.

Second was acceleration to a clear stop. You can't swing the stick at a constant speed. I see people waving fly rods back and forth without ever loading the rod. This causes all sorts of fun loops. Let you line straighten out on your defined stop.

Lastly, and this kinda goes with #2, slow down. Make a few casts where you never do a forward cast. Start your cast and just let the back cast fall to the ground. Wait for the feeling of the tug when your line straightens out behind you. Then, with the line on the ground, do a forward cast. The line on the ground will act as if you're water loading the line. Let that forward cast fall to the ground. Fly fishing is not spin fishing. Momentum on the forward cast alone is not what is going to carry your fly. People rush their forward cast and try to power the rod and fly forward. You're much better served by learning to haul. No amount of raw force is going to equal the advantages of a good haul.

Overall in summary: You've got an 8wt rod. Make sure you're in the 8-9wt line range. You're likely going to be throwing bigger flies with an 8wt. Pick a heavier leader to begin with. Maybe a 7.5' 3x. Start with a large piece of yarn. I often clip a size 2 hook at the bend and use that as my dummy rig. I'll even tie a clouser with eyes and clip the bend for my practice casting. Smooth acceleration to a sudden stop and let the line feed out before beginning your forward cast. Your back and forward casts should be identical in speed, power, and stopping point the only difference is you let your fly fall to the surface on the forward cast.

Slow down and have fun. Go catch some bluegill and build your confidence. Grass doesn't load a line / fly like water does. I always prefer to start practicing on water over grass.

Hokie.
 

bigspencer

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Start out each day by practicing casting by extending the line out from your rod tip....~5' at a time, and I don't mean zipping thru to 20' in 10minutes! Perfect throwing line at whatever length you're at....starting from the leader just being outside from the rod tip... Of course there isn't much one would catch at 3', but the goal isn't the distance, it's the cleanness of the line going out in a loop...under it's own momentum. My orders are to check out YouTube..the one thing you'll see on YouTube, whether it's Joan Wulff, Steve Rajeff, Jerry Siem or Lefty Kreh(MY 4 Models!)...Tom(Rosenbauer) is fine, Mel is great..but he's way beyond you, he concentrates on the intermediate-to-advanced stuff, the hand/rod and thus..the line's momentum is all in a straight path...straight back to straight forward, and the loop is formed directly over the rodtip!...whether the rod is straight up, canted at an angle, or completely canted out to the side...the Loop is formed straight over the rodtip...and they've eliminated anykind of curvature in the motion of the rod. Spend a whole month just on perfecting your line pickup, rod loading and loop formation...in the backcast, then in the forward cast...from ~4' of line out from the rod tip...to ~15'(Max). Don't use a huge amount of power in this, nice and easy...no breaking the wrist in casting!, at least not in short to medium lengths of line!..and you have to clean up your short cast form until you have control over the basics. The rod does the work but it has to be directed by your arm, wrist/hand motions.

Sorry for the rambling....keep it simple and short till it seems natural.
 
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