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Old 07-23-2016, 01:21 AM
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Default Casting nymphs vs dries

On a previous post we all know as a beginner I have a tailing loop problem here and there ( which has gotten better over the last couple weeks ty) but I've noticed I have to try really hard, I mean really punch the rod to get any wind knots when fishing dries, I assume with more wind resistant/lighter fly the loops keep their shape better and are not as prone to collaspe the leader on itself in mid air, now switch from a size 14 stonefly to a size 14 beadhead nymph and the problem arrises I may may not tail on every cast but still magically collect mysterious wind knots near the fly to halfway up tippit especially when applying power (hauling). As far as tippit selection I generally been using 6# fluoro ".008" basically 3x, my tippit is usually around 2'. 4x I know would be considerd more appropiate for size for 14, but I don't see a difference in catch rate and going a little heavy allows me to scale up to lightly weighted buggers and leeches around size 10 if need be without changing out my leader. Any suggestions to what might be going on?
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Casting nymphs vs dries

Clay

I'm no casting instructor and don't pretend to be one, but here are my thoughts. Casting dries and nymphs are not the same especially with weighted nymphs, you have to make a mental note when casting weighted nymphs to open your loop up. I usually nymph fish with at least two nymphs, one weighted and one not weighted, but most often I'm casting with three nymphs. To prevent wind knots I primarily use the technique called water loading for casting as I have found that it prevents wind knots unless the wind is really up and blowing in the direction of my cast, which causes the rig to collapse on itself at the end of the cast. When I have to overhand cast, I really make it a point to open up my loop, to prevent wind knots. Hopefully, some of the other members who understand casting dynamics better then I do will chime in and offer a solution.
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Old 07-23-2016, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Casting nymphs vs dries

I've also noticed throwing buggers and leeches that weighted are not much of an issue for me, again I had a hard time intentionally causing windknots during practice and I think this may contribute to the heavier fly assisting in straightening out the leader/tippit? It's a little confusing, so I'll make a more consious effort then with weighted nymphs to open my loop I guess for the time being.
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Old 07-23-2016, 07:16 PM
 
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Default Re: Casting nymphs vs dries

Quote:
Originally Posted by clayed21085 View Post
On a previous post we all know as a beginner I have a tailing loop problem here and there ( which has gotten better over the last couple weeks ty) but I've noticed I have to try really hard, I mean really punch the rod to get any wind knots when fishing dries, I assume with more wind resistant/lighter fly the loops keep their shape better and are not as prone to collaspe the leader on itself in mid air, now switch from a size 14 stonefly to a size 14 beadhead nymph and the problem arrises I may may not tail on every cast but still magically collect mysterious wind knots near the fly to halfway up tippit especially when applying power (hauling). As far as tippit selection I generally been using 6# fluoro ".008" basically 3x, my tippit is usually around 2'. 4x I know would be considerd more appropiate for size for 14, but I don't see a difference in catch rate and going a little heavy allows me to scale up to lightly weighted buggers and leeches around size 10 if need be without changing out my leader. Any suggestions to what might be going on?
There are two possibilities.

One is that that nymph is heavier than the dry fly. This makes it more difficult to fully extend the leader on the backcast. When that happens, the nymph may have dropped below the axis of the backcast. Since the nymph on the forward cast must follow the path of the fly leg of the loop which is ABOVE the rod leg, the fly must CROSS the rod leg and that is a tailing loop.

The second possibility is that because ti takes more energy to cast a weighted bead-head nymph than the dry fly, you are starting cast with a sudden "jab" that suddenly bends the rod and dips the rod tip down. This forms a dip in the fly line path and a tailing loop results.

The cure is to perform an oval Belgian cast that creates a horizontal separation of the rod and fly legs so that even if the legs cross vertically, they are separated horizontally in space so the legs do not hook each other.

Casting Heavy Flies | MidCurrent

The Belgian Cast | MidCurrent

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Old 07-24-2016, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Casting nymphs vs dries

The overhand cast is for dries......why would it be for nymphing? The romance of the dry cast is silly.......when not fishing dries.
I almost never cast that way when nymphing. We aren't drying flies, and no false casts are needed.........
I can cast it overhand because I have complete loop control, but.......... why would I?
When nymphing, I'm fishing 10-40 ft, even out to 60ft with the switch rod....
so a rollcast is plenty.
The rollcast is your friend. Add a waterload and problems go away. The snap-T sneaks in now as well.

When guiding, even beginners..we have a great day with few tangles if they listen to me and roll it...If they overhand (some folks can't quit it, it's like muscle memory is reality...)......I spend more time dealing with a big "windknot".
I'm a knot master after all these years....but that doesn't make it fun....
If you are dealing, you aren't fishing.................
Most fishers that graduate to nymphing from dries, pick an aim-point way too low. We throw at the water because a dry turns over easily....
When nymphing, pick a spot 3ft or more above where you aim now.
The more weight you use, the higher you raise the aim-point.
Gives the leader time to turn over. It "opens" the loop. This is especially true when you get into longer leaders.
If you up-line a bit, the line can handle the extra weight better as well.........
Unlike casting a dry, when rollcasting, chop to the water, don't stop a ten o'clock.......

Have fun working it out.

Jim

Last edited by Bigfly; 07-24-2016 at 02:35 PM.
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