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-   -   Big Flies and Sink Tips (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-cast/69467-big-flies-sink-tips.html)

lancer09 11-08-2010 03:23 PM

Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
Well the time of year has come that I want to try and start getting some flies down real deep like some big streamers with a sink tip. I have also encountered a problem casting.

I've got a 6 weight rod with a WF floating line, with a 5 foot orvis sink tip section attached to 1.5 foot of the butt part of the leader. The most recent fly I was trying to cast was a size 6 TA Bunker.

My rod is definitely a relativelly inexpensive one as it's a Dogwood canyon rod from bass pro, but I've had it for 10 years and it has been awesome all this time.

I also taught myself to fly cast and can really shoot a good bit of line, When I looked up how to double haul, I realized that that's what I had been doing since I started casting..

SO, what are some tips to help get big heavy flies out there farther than what i'm getting, which is abou 35 feet.

mcnerney 11-08-2010 04:27 PM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
Lancer09: Diagnosing casting issues is difficult over the internet. I'm not familiar with the Dogwood Canyon line of rods so I went to their web site. They don't specifically say what action the rod is, but just guessing from the description below I'd say a medium action, but someone with experience with these rods hopefully with chime in. "Designed specifically to help introductory fly anglers excel in the sport. Dogwood Canyon™ rods are forgiving as your skills improve". A 6 wt fly rod should be able to throw a sink tip line and a #6 streamer further than 35 ft, but you will be handicaped using a medium action rod. A fast action rod would be more appropriate to throw that extra weight. I use a 6wt fast action Orvis TLS rod I bought off EBay with a SA Kelly Galloup Streamer Express 200 grain sink tip, and I'm no expert caster for sure and I can throw that line 60 ft easily. Once you get the casting issues lined out take a look at Kelly's articulated streamers, they have amazing action in the water.

Larry

lancer09 11-09-2010 12:36 AM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
I figured as much, dont get me wrong, I can throgh a normal.. small.. fly close to ni nety feet. I'm goign to start looking at fast action rods and see what i can find probably used. I've thrown fast actions in some heavier weights and far prefereed them over a medium, which i'm assuming mine is. I'd like to start adding some rods in heavier weights and lower but I really like a six with how versatile it can be. Before any of that though, it's tim eto invest in a new reel, as the drag on mine has stopped working.

mcnerney 11-09-2010 11:21 AM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
I figured there wasn't much wrong with your casting. Try to cast the rod you are planning on purchasing before laying out the hard cash. Like I said above I buy stuff off EBay but I have been using Orvis rods since the early 80's and their rating system seems to be pretty consistent. Take a hard look at the Allen Fly Fishing reels and rods. I don't know how the rods are but the reels are a fantastic and very reasonably priced. Send a PM to Justin he offers a good discount to forum members.
alpha_workaaa

Here is a review on their reels:
http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/fo...-fly-reel.html

Larry

wt bash 11-09-2010 11:25 AM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
You can do it, just slow way down with the medium rod and try to false cast as little as possible maybe 2 strokes and let it fly.

Hardyreels 11-09-2010 11:19 PM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
Water load the rod and use a single back cast. Allow the back cast to straiten out and then let it fly. Practice with positioning the line prior to the "water load" will help you to make the presentation cast where you want.

ChrisinselwynNZ 02-01-2011 08:00 AM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardyreels (Post 163748)
Water load the rod and use a single back cast. Allow the back cast to straiten out and then let it fly. Practice with positioning the line prior to the "water load" will help you to make the presentation cast where you want.


This is how I cast big flies on my six wt (up to 4xlong 1/0 weighted and dumbelled:p), the most important thing is that the line is strait on the water, you start low and gain speed through the back cast untill it stops and is strait to give the best rod loading

also try a sinking line. At 40' even an intermedate line will out fish a 5' sink tip;)

Chris

yatahey 02-01-2011 08:36 AM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardyreels (Post 163748)
Water load the rod and use a single back cast. Allow the back cast to straiten out and then let it fly. Practice with positioning the line prior to the "water load" will help you to make the presentation cast where you want.

This is good advice and it sounds like it may be your problem particularly on the back cast. Large heavy flies need to be allowed to go as far back on the back cast as you can get them without falling off at the end of the back cast to be able to shoot forward with the greatest velocity. If your back cast timing is off by not waiting long enough before you forward cast, the weight of the fly will work against you when you cast forward by slowing down before the weight can pull the line forward shooting the line. If your timing is off your forward cast will tend to collapse before it has a chance to shoot the line. Try waiting a little longer on the back cast before you start your forward cast.

Hardyreels 02-01-2011 11:40 AM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
Have you ever gotten the problem solved? When thinking on all of the years that I fished the No Wading section of Spring Creek where a back cast was often impossible I realize that I was using a single Spey style cast and doing it with a 9' 5 weight. I fished the rod on that creek for 15 years using a WF 5 floater with a 48" lead head on the end of the line. On the lead head I had 6 - 8' of eight or ten pound leader with a size 2 or 4 Answer (feather wing streamer weighted with copper wire) and was able to get hung on the opposite side of the widest channels regularly. What worked for me may not be your cup of tea. You need to find a style of cast that will do what you need. When you find it, someday you'll discover that someone named it 50 or more years ago and now you know how to do it.

Ard

wjc 02-01-2011 11:58 AM

Re: Big Flies and Sink Tips
 
Lancer,

Yatahey needs to get his little man at the bottom of his post off the speed and onto some tranquilizers.

He has very severe pause and line feeding problems, but is obviously casting in one of the other 11 parallel universes where the laws of our universe don't apply. In our universe, he would not be able to keep the line in the air.

Look at the big belly of line hanging down between the stripping guide and his line hand at the start of his backcast. That slack is not taken up until his backcast stroke is very nearly totally completed. In our uinvese, the line would collapse in front of him and fall to the water.

He has no pause whatsoever either, so that big loop of line has to be taken out before the end of the line moves in the direction of his cast.

When feeding line back into the cast with the line hand, you need to feel line tension in that line hand. If not, the line will not feed in, and you will have slack in the line for the next casting cycle. So feed it back in slow, so you can feel the tension.

Basically, you should be feeling tension in the line hand for 99 percent of the stroke. You should lose it only for a very brief period of time right around when the rod is unloading.

Cheers,
Jim


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