The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > The Fly Cast

The Fly Cast Discuss fly casting with the expert, ask for help, learn to cast farther, increase your accuracy, troubleshoot your cast.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:46 AM
Jackster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,647
Jackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant future
Default Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyreels View Post
This is becoming very much like the 'More taste / Less filling' beer debate, is it not?
Hardy... I was just mentioning a fix I use for the sweeping back cast problem I see every so often and the grip that helps.
Reply With Quote
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2011, 10:35 AM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,512
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

Jackster,

A guy on another site was raving about how Peter Morse (a FFF MCI, Guide, Fishing program host etc. in Austrailia) had totally changed the way he cast and added so much distance and ease to his cast that he couldn't believe it.

So I asked the guy specifically what Morsie had changed. He changed the grip and the stance. I then asked Morsie for specifics and he elaborated saying that he often sees open stances with closed shoulders, and thumb on top backcasts that are counter productive. The student had been FFing for more than 40 years and with one lesson was casting further and with less effort than ever before.

I asked Morsie if he thought that "fundamental" changes like grip and stance helped to erase muscle memory built up over years of casting, and he said "Absolutely!".

So I would encourage people to experiment with different grips and stances even if you have no trouble casting. You may stumble upon something that makes your day, or eases your arthritis.

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2011, 11:33 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,311
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
Maybe I'm blind, but I see Raejeff's thumb on top.
Anyway, after seeing this video, and reading what I could on the subject, I have yet to run across anyone even mentioning how to grip the rod with just one grip.
Myself, I think it's whats comfortable and what works for you. And for me, I like the thumb on top. Although once in a while fishing small streams, I will use my finger on top for short casts.
I completely agree with you that an caster should use what is comfortable and what works for them. The question is what to do when what is comfortable does not work.

I don't think you are blind. There is a difference between where the thumb is when the rod is held at rest and where the thumb is when the rod is cast. It is the position of the thumb relative to the rod stroke during the cast that is critical. Here's another video from a better angle. Look at about 30 seconds. I think when Steve bring the rod forward his thumb is to the inside of the grip.

__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
Reply With Quote
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2011, 12:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Central NY
Posts: 325
whalensdad is a jewel in the roughwhalensdad is a jewel in the roughwhalensdad is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

Having only been fly fishing religiously since last year, I found that I was always breaking my wrist using the "normal, recommended, taught, etc... thumb on top grip. My line would flop all over the place and I couldn't get any distance. 2 months ago I switched to the index finger on top (I actually even place my index finger partly on the rod at the top of the grip). I have found it to provide much better control, longer casts and way more comfort, which works for me.
Reply With Quote
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2011, 05:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ben Lomond, CA.
Posts: 575
oarfish is a name known to alloarfish is a name known to alloarfish is a name known to alloarfish is a name known to alloarfish is a name known to alloarfish is a name known to all
Talking Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

Alot of good points of view here, I've always been a thumb up guy, but the old arthrist is turning my hand to a more comfortable position naturally, it does resemble a three point grip, but if my culb FFF instructor ever saw it, he might break a couple of fingers.

Rick
Reply With Quote
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:03 PM
mojo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Yewta
Posts: 2,143
mojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant future
Default Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
I completely agree with you that an caster should use what is comfortable and what works for them. The question is what to do when what is comfortable does not work.

I don't think you are blind. There is a difference between where the thumb is when the rod is held at rest and where the thumb is when the rod is cast. It is the position of the thumb relative to the rod stroke during the cast that is critical. Here's another video from a better angle. Look at about 30 seconds. I think when Steve bring the rod forward his thumb is to the inside of the grip.

Steve Rajeff - Super Flycasting - YouTube
That was a long time ago!
Again, I see the thumb on top until the line is out on the final cast when he shoots the line and it takes out some of the backing- then I see his thumb slide to his left. After the cast. Last few seconds of the video.
Any way, good thread, good answers, good beer.
__________________
Life is not like a bowl of cherries. It's more like a jar of ghost peppers. What you eat today might burn your ass tomorrow...
Reply With Quote
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2011, 10:03 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,311
silver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond reputesilver creek has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

More food for thought.

Maybe there is some confusion about holding the rod with the thumb on top grip vs how one thinks they actually cast with that grip.

I've noticed that some fly casters hold the grip that way but when they actually cast, they rotate the rod hand so that the side of the fly reel faces forward on the cast. This places the thumb more to inside of the cork as the rod stroke goes forward. Then this becomes the palm out grip.

Here is a photo from Mel Krieger's book, The Essence of Fly Casting. From left to right, they are the thumb on top grip, the V grip, and the palm out grip. As you can see, as you rotate the reel out, the casting grip changes.

As Mel Krieger's description indicates, the grip is how you hold your rod as you make the casting stroke.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

As you watch the caster below, you will see that he rotates the rod so that the reel is to the side and he uses the palm out grip.

__________________
Regards,

Silver



"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
Reply With Quote
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2011, 08:21 AM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,512
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Rod Grip: Thumb or Index Finger?

Europeans call what everyone here is calling the "Palm out" grip, the "palm forward" grip, which I believe is more accurately descrilptive of the grip.

It is basically the same grip used by the dominant hand to throw a baseball, hit a baseball, hold a tennis racket, golf club, hockey stick, lacrosse stick, and that used by most professional framing carpenters to swing a heavy framing hammer or hatchet.

It is also possible to grab a fly rod the same way, or not.

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2011, 08:24 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
noobaddict is on a distinguished road
Default

I am a new fly fisherman and I use the thumb up grip. Mainly because that is how I was taught. I just found this thread very reminiscent of a recurring thread on the other forum I frequent. It is a radio controlled helicopter forum and there are often threads comparing the virtues of the "thumbs on the sticks" vs the " pinch grip." I think in both cases the answer is if your grip is working for you and it is comfortable, that is probably the right grip.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sore Thumb peregrines Fly Patterns 0 10-14-2010 10:43 PM
Any one fly fish the finger lakes? cattech89 Northeast 4 06-05-2010 06:31 AM
stripping glove or finger guard MacFly55 Other Gear 11 06-04-2010 08:49 PM
Tom Thumb tob1 Share Patterns 8 12-26-2008 08:24 PM
Chub rule of thumb? jcl Coldwater Fly Fishing 8 12-16-2008 12:21 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.