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Old 09-17-2011, 08:58 PM
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Default Improved Clinch knot or not

I believe many of us are using the improved clinch knot to tie their flies. First of all, I am wondering how many of us are using different knot to tie flies such as Davy knot. Please let me know pros and cons of other knots.

Another question is when one uses the improved clinch knot, how many times do you wrap around the main line? Most of the instructional videos say that we should wrap around 5 times. But I find that four times is enough and when I did more than 5, it results in an abrasion of tippet.

Last edited by texastroutbum; 09-20-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 09-17-2011, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

when i use a cinch knot,which i use most of the time, i go 6-8 wraps and always add a dad of spit,(helps lube the knot for a stronger finish). a nice close trim of the tag and you're good to go!


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Old 09-17-2011, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

Since randomly running across an article on knots earlier this year I've been trying to make myself tie some other knots that might be stronger but not that much harder to tie. Now, I've been using the Improved Clinch for as long as I've fished, and have landed plenty of big heavy fish. And of course broken off lots of who-knows-how-big fish (probably really big, right?!).

I know lots of guides that use the Improved Clinch all the time, so it is obviously a suitable knot. But that one article I read, and I cannot recall where it was, claimed that the IC knot could go as low as 65% strength retention. That is bad. But I've also read 80%+, so I don't know which to believe. But I assume that to get below 70% strength you'd have to be tying bad knots.

I have been tying the Trilene knot because it is rated between 80-90% and is almost the same knot except you pass through the hook eye twice. Any knot that passes through the eye twice will be stronger. The Orvis knot is another that is not much harder to tie and supposedly very strong. One of the strongest knots of all is the Palomar, which is actually quite simple to tie on larger hooks.

It's really a matter of comfort level I think. If you can tie a good knot, and it works, tie it with confidence. But it certainly will not hurt you to know how to tie a few options of the strongest knots.
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Old 09-17-2011, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean_mt View Post
I know lots of guides that use the Improved Clinch all the time, so it is obviously a suitable knot. But that one article I read, and I cannot recall where it was, claimed that the IC knot could go as low as 65% strength retention. That is bad. But I've also read 80%+, so I don't know which to believe. But I assume that to get below 70% strength you'd have to be tying bad knots.



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the standard cinch is actually stronger than the improved, if tied properly.
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

I very rarely use any knot other than a Trilene knot to tie the fly on. It's a 100% strength knot that I trust.
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

I just learned Davy knot and tried to pull tippet and finds that this knot may be stronger than improved synch knot.

Dan, Trilene knot seems to be good for a big hook. Another knot to learn.
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

I like the Trilene knot, it is exceptionally strong. It is also nice that even if you leave a little extra tag than usual, the tag threads alongside the fly/lure rather than back up the line/hanging outward. The palomar knot is very easy and I use it some times (its especially good when it gets cold and your hands don't want to tie an improved clinch or trilene) but while it rates well with constant pressure some sources rate it very low (50s/60s) on quick stress situations, so I would be nervous using it for tarpon and the like. Also, like Casey said, absolutely lubricate the knot so that it cinches down well and without undue stress on the line. You can also go the extra mile and hit it with zap-a-gap or UV-whatever-its-called, but this could start getting a little tedious...
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by caseywise View Post
the standard cinch is actually stronger than the improved, if tied properly.
Really? What the heck is the "improvement" then? I haven't found any standard rating on knots...anyone?


Quote:
Originally Posted by texastroutbum View Post
Dan, Trilene knot seems to be good for a big hook. Another knot to learn.
5X easily passes through a size 14 hook eye twice, 4X will too. Give it a try.

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
I very rarely use any knot other than a Trilene knot to tie the fly on. It's a 100% strength knot that I trust.
Dan, I know it's a strong knot, I've read it's a high 90% knot, but I've also seen it rated in the 80's and below the Improved Clinch. Where do you find the truth about these knot ratings? Which do you believe? I like the Trilene too, and if it's good enough for that record pike you caught, it's certainly good enough for me!
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

Haha, Dean, I'm with you. We need oversight on these knot strength testers! Who do we trust? What are the actual ratings? In all honesty, I want split-second stress results AND constant stress results, done by an outside party who doesn't have a particular knot they are trying to sell. I think you've hit the actual nail on the head though, Dan did catch that record pike along with a bunch of other records... I'll second his word as more than good enough for me
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Old 09-18-2011, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Improved Synch knot or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean_mt View Post
Dan, I know it's a strong knot, I've read it's a high 90% knot, but I've also seen it rated in the 80's and below the Improved Clinch.
The Fishing Hall of Fame no longer requires you send the fly attached to the leader, but the IGFA still does. Back in the days they ( Fishing Hall of Fame ) did, I broke quite a few records with Ande mono that breaks at the rated pound test. They send along with your record, a sheet showing what the leader broke at. I make my leaders with a perfection loop at the end. It is not a 100% knot but it is in the big line and will not break before the test tippet. I connect the sections of the leader and test tippet with blood knots. I then tie on the fly with a Trilene knot. When they have tested my leaders they break right where thay are supposed to. Also when I snag the bottom it is extremely rare that I bust a fly off any way but between the Trilene knot and the blood knot. I'd say that kinda proves the strength of both the Trilene and the blood knot. I have a spool of 20 that I sent a bunch in to be tested for a record with conventional tackle. So no knots involved. It breaks right dead on 20. I used the same spool to make leaders for 2 fly rod records and both broke dead on 20, knots and all. On occasion I do use a couple of other knots. If I put a bite tippet on, I use a bimini twist and albright knot the double end to the bite tippet. I did the 8 lb. tippet Walleye record this way with a 30lb. bite tippet because I was getting clipped of by Pike so much and got tired of loosing flies. After testing that leader I also have faith in the Bimini and Albright knots.
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