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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2012, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

The reason,IMO,that everybody is into Rio,SA,AF,is all about marketing.I think that Cortland had such a lock on the market years ago that they forgot how to promote.Thinking,Its a Cortland,it will sell.I don't know if you can blame it on one bad line,the lazer.They all have had a few misses.The difference is how it is overcome.I have had a chance to cast a couple of spey lines demos last year and I really like them.I don't claim to be a spey god,just an average caster.Both Scandi full lines.After a couple of emails back and forth,that was it.I was hoping that they would get serious about the spey lines,but have seen nothing.All of the top dogs have a great reputation in the spey game.Look at Rio.The Windcutter was one of the biggest bombs out there.A **** line that sold millions I'm sure.Marketing sold it,"The Windcutter".Today everybody has a Windcutter in their line bag.At the bottom!My point is they moved on with other great products and is on top of the game.
At this point it is a huge uphill climb that I'm not sure they can make.I truly hope that they can.It has been a staple of many a fishermen around the world that would be sorely missed.Customer service has always been great.I have snapped a couple of their rods that I drive down with and get replaced with no question asked. Every time I drive through Cortland I stop at the outlet store and grab a few things.Not that I need them,just because that's what grampa did.

Scott
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
I would be curious to be informed as to what the issues were? As far as testing goes; I was invited to take a bag full of coded lines to the Exumas allong with a group of 7 other anglers. I was given comment sheets for each person to fill out after fishing these lines for a week. This line became the Lazer Tropic Plus which was a serious contender along with the existing SA Mastery Bonefish Taper. There are more specialized lines in this catagory now and I have not tried a brand new version of this Cortland line but the original was a fine and durable product that was a spot on match for certain rods. I am confident that I was not unique in this process wich certainly qualifies as "testing".
I will find out today. I have been told serveral times by two different people and I think I know. I just want to verify with my friends in the business so I do not say anything wrong.

That being said i think the sitting on their rear ends and not doing marketing holds a lot of water too.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

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Originally Posted by utah daveii View Post
That being said i think the sitting on their rear ends and not doing marketing holds a lot of water too.
If I'm not mistaken, some of their best marketing had something to do with sitting on rear ends.
How soon we forget.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

Warning!!! This is a rant and you are forewarned! Enter at your own risk.

As I see it, fly fishermen are becoming geometrically more and more knowledgeable through forums like this one and I see no signs of a regression.

The AFTMA (American Fly Tackle Manufacturers’ Association) – now the ASA (American Sportsmen’s Association) - on the other hand, is perfectly content to remain retarded and in that regard, help to promote marketing gibberobabble at the expense of useful (to us) information.

I maintain that manufacturers don’t need outlandish marketing, just good fly lines and solid information about them that we can use to narrow down our line choices.

What use is the weight of the first 30’ of line to someone like Sweet and Salt who likes the “SA masterery expert distance” which has a head length of over 70 feet. Frankly, I wouldn't give a cat's furball for that "information".

Why does Rio use “head weight” to mean “the first 30 feet of the head weight” but only sometimes? They seem to know what the word “head” means in their spey lines.

A lot of knowledgeable casters think Rio publishes the actual real “head weight” on the main page showing their Tarpon Taper lines. I, too, was fooled until I actually weighed one and found it to be approximately 560 grains not the 428 grain “head weight” as clearly published on their website. That is more than the real weight of their 15 wt Leviathan billfish head.

I, too, wish Cortland well, especially after an email I got from someone named Joe in their tech department.

Joe went down to the shop and actually cut the heads off and weighed not just the two line weights I asked for, but all seven of the lines in that series – and added the head lengthsl for additional clarity on his own. Thank you, Joe.

Now, if Joe could just convince the head gibberobabble man to publish the below chart on their website, he would be doing fly fishermen the biggest service since the introduction of the original SA Air-Cell in the 50’s.

Cortland Liquid Crystal
6-9wt - longer head profile
6wt - 250gn @ 47'
7wt - 275gn @ 47'
8wt - 305gn @ 47'
9wt - 345gn @ 47'

10-12wt compact head design
10wt - 350gn @ 42'
11wt - 400gn @ 42'
12wt - 455gn @ 42'

PS: Sweet & Salt. I’ve heard rumors that one of the manufacturers will be coming out with a “12 wt” line with a longer head soon– whatever “12 wt” means.

PS: Joe, if this gets back to you, I did buy the Liquid in two sizes, a 12 wt for my old 12 wt tarpon rod and an 11 for my new 12 wt rod. So you can tell your boss that those chopped up lines were not totally in vain.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

Hey Jim,

I can dig up his e-mail if you would like.Joe seems like one of the few people there taking an interest


Scott.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

Quote:
IMO with a line of the caliber you would think they would be screaming from the rooftops.Instead it is just put in the pile with the rest of their lines leaving the costumer on his own to find it.
Scott,

I suspect they may be in "frantic" mode with cost savings steps. It would take, at most, a total of 10 minutes for someone at Cortland to add a link to their hidden page (available only through a site search using the term "Liquid") about their new clear saltwater tropical line.

That new line is being carried by "The" fly shops in S. Florida, and is being used by a lot of "The" fly fishing guides here for flats fishing. It replaces the PE+ Crystal which has undergone more internet bashing than any line I can remember except for the "SA Sharkskin". The new line is now being bashed , as recently as yesterday, on the Fl. Sportsman by people not aware that the PE Liquid Crystal is a completely new line and, basically being a new line, is now called the "Liquid Crystal". It no longer has the alleged coiling/memory/tangling problem of its predecessor the Crystal Pe+.

But no mention of the Liquid Crystal appears on Cortland's menu of products - even though every quality fly shop I know of in S. Florida stocks them - NOT the Crystal PE+.

This can only be a "management" decision - one justified (or rationalized) by looking at the cost of an inventory of lines no one wants - and then deciding to sell them to a less informed, unsuspecting market to cut losses on that particular line. Both lines come in nearly identical looking containers.

Sadly, that is how it works. SA is doing a similar thing on their website -though they do have all their lines listed, just in an illogical and very confusing manner.

On their home page, if you click on lines up comes a menu with “Sharkskin Series” listed at the top – likely their poorest selling tropical fly line in their history (with good reason in my opinion)- even though the “Mastery Textured” series is their newest line. So you have to already know about their lineup of lines before even going there.

Clicking on that series brings up another menu in which you select by category – Salt water, Species (ie tarpon etc), tropical , rod weight and so on. All that shows up, of course, is sharkskin lines. So a newcomer could well think that after clicking on “Tarpon” or “redfish” or “whatever” that they have only two choices of lines for “tarpon” etc. (Both sharkskins of course).

That is because a side menu tells you that you are “shopping by “species” "– even though you are really shopping by “One Series of Line”- in this case, the infamous sharkskin.

In no case is the ancient saying, “Caveat Emptor” more applicable than in “researching” fly lines.

There is another specification that would be very handy for floating lines that someone mentioned earllier, and that is the line's density (specific gravity). That would give us an inkling of how well it floats out of the box.

In fishing the flats, for instance, I would prefer an "almost floating" line to a really "high floating" line, simply because the former would carry better on long casts and especially casts into the wind. The SA MED line does not float well, but handles wind extremely well, not only because of its head length, but its density as well.

Enough. Sorry for getting off the subject of the "Boss", which I have not used, but it seemed like this thread was about more than just the line.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

Just a quickie guys. The problems at Cortland especially in marketing can be traced to one issue in the last year, no money. Cortland had serious debt issues and really couldn't do any kind of serious marketing. As of last Thursday, Cortland is under new ownership. And if the early realities hold true, you'll see a much stronger company over the next few years. And yes Trout Boss is the real deal. I suspect you'll see more of it in fly shops next year.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

Fine research WJC; I look forward to your users report on the Liquid Crystal lines.

Burk, If you read my earlier post in this thread it sounds like I have insider information or a crystal ball...I have neither. However, I am overjoyed that this grand old company is to be re-energized and, no sooner did the cash arrive then so did an offer of Boss samples. What is the chance of a re-birth of Diamondback in a contemporary advanced tech form, made in Cortland, NY?
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

Burk is right on. Trout Boss is far and away the nicest line i have used to date and i have used all of the big dogs. Its not cheap...but its worth the money. Im no huge fan of WF lines but this stuff roll casts, mends, and lays out as nice as any DT i have ever used...the advantage is that it shoots like a distance line! Great stuff!
Cortland is BACK!
P.S...I still love their 444 peach!
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Cortland BOSS

i recently got a boss wf5-f and really like it....
smooth,slick and very cast friendly.

casey
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