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Old 04-22-2013, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
Any line slapping the water can transmit enough sound and energy to the water to get then trouts attention and spook them. This is why, for the most part, the cast should end with the line above the water so it gently lands without signaling the trout you are there. Hoppers, poppers and such sometimes work better being slapped on the water to get the fish's attention but even then it's best to not slap the line if you can help it.
The Textured SA line is quieter than the Sharkskin and is easier on the fingers and epoxy around the guides.
I started fly fishing when silk lines were the norm (and a whole lot cheaper) because that's what was on the rods the grown-ups brought on vacation. From there I've witnessed and used a lot of lines since the progression from silk to what we have today. Being one of the grown-ups today I enjoy witnessing and being the beneficiary of the progress the line manufacturers have made in making slick and durable, low maintenance lines. The Sharkskin and Textured lines I use have no more or less problems of the tips floating than slick lines of the same general configuration. Truth-be-told, the highest floating tips I've ever had on fly lines are any of the Cortland lines with their Dyna-Tip. The same people who bring us the ancient 333 lines that so many people adore thankfully didn't stop at that and are still improving and innovating. I hope I never get so old or stuck in my ways that I can't take advantage of the true improvements that make this sport more enjoyable and efficient.
If you are having trouble feel your rod load it might not be you but the rod you are using. As mentioned earlier, the SA GPX and Rio Grand can help not only in tossing meatier flies but being a 1/2 line weight heavy also can in getting a feel for rod loading. The GPX comes in slick, Textured and Sharkskin!
Having my druthers I pick Textured, it's the best of both worlds for my uses.
Thanks for the info. I'm buying a new rod and maybe two - both in the 3-5 wt range. One will be for more delicate presentations and small water and the other for the all around streamer/nymph/fly 5 wt. I'm wondering what type of fly line is the best and why so I can match it to those rods. I've never had to choose a line before.

Sharkskin isn't a line I want to use. This leaves the textured and smooth lines. I've read the manufactures claims that textured is better. I'm wondering if this is true or just good advertising. You say textured is your preference. Is there a reason why you like it better? What does it do better than smooth lines and/or vise versa?

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
Sounds are vibrations transmitted through the gases, liquids or solids. They are pressure waves that have a frequency and wavelength.

For sounds to be heard, they need to be able to pass from the air to the water. Normal sounds and even shouting are not passed from air to water. The frequency shift is too great. Sound travels 4.3 times as fast in water as in air and so the sound cannot penetrate and is reflected.

"A water–air interface is usually an almost perfect reflector of acoustic waves."

Sound and the water–air interface

Fish do have internal ears for higher frequency vibrations and lateral lines for lower frequency.

What fish do sense through their lateral lines are the vibrations we make when we wade AND the underwater "sounds' we make with wading staffs. The sense the vibrations from us walking on the river bank. These vibrations are transmitted from ground and not the air.

Shout and yell all you want. Fish are deaf to that. If someone tells you the fish can hear that, they are mistaken.
I really appreciate the response!

I knew about the speed at which sound travels under water. Lefty Kreh wrote about it in at least one of his books. This fact is, in part, is what lead me to start this thread.

Can you tell me if the noise or vibrations a textured fly line makes rubbing against the guides on a fly rod while stripping in the line, like during a streamer retrieve, are transmitted through a fly line that is in the water - into the water? This one item is my biggest concern with textured fly lines. As a secondary question, would it transfer enough noise (vibrations) where it could spook the fish?

Thanks!
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

There are advantages to both, so it can not be said that one is truly "better" than the other.

Smooth lines- Easy on fingers and guides alike, doesn't make noise through guides. A good one will float as well as anything, same goes for textured though.

Textured- Can shoot as well or better, in many cases, than a smooth line. Textured surface can help to break surface tension and aid in presentation. Possibly easier to mend (since there is less friction of line on guides) depending on who you ask.

If you stick with a high quality line for a reputable maker, paying attention to how it matches your chosen rod, you will be fine, textured or not.

I have not noticed my textured line spooking fish at all.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

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There are advantages to both, so it can not be said that one is truly "better" than the other.

Smooth lines- Easy on fingers and guides alike, doesn't make noise through guides. A good one will float as well as anything, same goes for textured though.

Textured- Can shoot as well or better, in many cases, than a smooth line. Textured surface can help to break surface tension and aid in presentation. Possibly easier to mend (since there is less friction of line on guides) depending on who you ask.

If you stick with a high quality line for a reputable maker, paying attention to how it matches your chosen rod, you will be fine, textured or not.

I have not noticed my textured line spooking fish at all.
This is a great response and much appreciated!

I do plan to stick with a name brand quality line - likely something from the SA Mastery series in a weight to match the rod/s I buy - Trout Taper or GPX.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

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Originally Posted by ts47 View Post
I've never replaced a fly line before. I'm considering something in the SA Mastery series. Should I go textured or not? Part of this decision is based on also considering upgrading my rod to the TFO BVK 5 wt with a metal stripping guide.

I fished the Sharkskin line and didn't like all the noise when stripping the line in while streamer fishing. Does the noise transfer from the line to the water? Wouldn't that spook the fish - especially in smaller water??

Is the new textured line better or quieter? I hear it shoots, floats and mends better (but don't know if it is true or not). Is the noise a problem with the textured line? I don't want to reduce my chances of catching fish. Am I over analyzing this or is it something real to consider?

Textured or not - what are your recommendations for an all purpose 5 wt WF F fly line? (This would make a good topic for the FAQ section)

Thanks!
My take on textured lines...

1) I strongly dislike sharkskin lines as they are way too noisy and not so easy on the hands either.

2) Textured lines are much much nicer to use than sharkskin, however, they are roughly half as noisy as sharkskin, I wouldn't worry about spooking fish, it would be more of a matter of personal preference if you mind the noise or not.

3) They are less likely to give you "line burn" than a smooth line is in my experience. If you do a lot of strip setting, this can be an advantage. If anyone says that textured lines are harder on the hands, they haven't fished them much in my opinion, remember, I am talking textured, not sharkskin.

4) I feel textured running lines tangle less than smooth ones, but there isn't a huge difference.

5) The biggest advantage to textured lines in my opinion is simply that they are some of SA's best tapers, in a nut shell I feel that is far and away the reason they are better in some ways than other lines. I personally think this is why they shoot better, etc... I think the tapers are the reason for this, not the dimples in the line. There are some SA smooth lines that shoot just as well as the textured ones do and there are some lines made by other companies that shoot just as well too in my honest opinion.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

This is a good question and many good responses...kudos to Jackster and Silver Creek for historic and technical perspectives.

Unlike GPX which is available in all versions, most SA lines feature unique tapers in each of the three series, SS, Textured and original Mastery. Often the taper and weight distribution of the lines' design has more to do with its performance on a given rod than the surface treatment. I fish lines from all these series as well as Airflo's Ridge lines; the quiet textured line.

My wife and I enjoyed a great, remote bonefishing destination in the northern Bahamas a couple of years ago. She had a brand new at the time TFO BVK #8 ,and, as BVK's tend to prefer 1/2 heavy lines of an aggressive taper, she had a tropical SA Sharkskin Magnum rigged for it and I had an SA Textured Saltwater on my NRX. We felt very stylish. First day out our alpha guide hissed louder than any Sharkskin against Recoils; "Lady do you have any quit lines, those things spook de bonefish!" She asked me and of course I always have back up lines and allowed I would re-rig her reel that evening. "Mister, your line makes noise too!" Well, I explained, I do not believe the sound the line makes in the guides (NRX too has noisy Recoil guides) is transmitted into the water and I really like the way this line fishes with this rod. The next morning my wife hooked a fine fish on her first cast; the guide beamed. "See, the Lady listened to her guide and caught a big one right away!" I too got a big fish shortly thereafter and said; "This fish didn't seem to mind the sound of my line." "Dats because you put the fly right on his head as I told you to do so there was not enough stripping to send de noise to de fish." "What about the slap of the tide on the chines of the skiff and the crunch of the push poll", I asked? Well, rather than debate with this excellent but strong willed guide for the rest of the week, I took Billy Pate's sound advise and "listened to my guide". I put on a nice quite RIO Tarpon #8 (an excellent over looked bonefish line ignored because of its name) and fished out a fine week with no further controversy.

Despite the shooting, high floating, chemical dirt repelency and auditory indicator of casting flaws (slack in the cast primarily) offered by Textured lines, many anglers never get used to the sound. Therefore, for BVK #5 I recommend RIO Grande or possibly the new 1/2 heavy Airflo Ridge (call Rajeff Sports for details). Jackster, is Cortland Trout BOSS a bit heavy too? If so it would be a fine match as well. Fine quality lines that are heavy and quiet. The GPX taper is popular and I do use it on one rod but do not care for its presentation attributes (too short rear taper).
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

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Originally Posted by ts47 View Post
Sharkskin isn't a line I want to use. This leaves the textured and smooth lines. I've read the manufactures claims that textured is better. I'm wondering if this is true or just good advertising. You say textured is your preference. Is there a reason why you like it better? What does it do better than smooth lines and/or vise versa?

Thanks!
10-12 years ago I had a clear tipped floating line that I thought would be just the ticket for some of the clear, slow waters I fished. I can't recall how well the clear tip worked but that line shot like none I ever tried. At the time me and my buddies concluded that it shot so well because the handling partion of the line had a rough, textured surface. I wish I could remember the maker of that line as they never were a big player in the market. Their stuff just popped up every now and then. What I do remember is the clear tip and, rare at the time, the handling portion and running line were a light, sky blue. Maybe this line is what got me appreciating what a textured finish can do.

Since Scientific Anglers makes some of their premium lines in all three configurations; smooth, Textured and Sharkskin, it's easy to do A/B comparisons if you have friends with them or money to burn.
I've used GPX smooth for a number of years in a couple different line weights and have used the Textured and Sharkskin for a while too. I've had the Textured for the past year and Sharkskin since it came out. Though the original smooth Mastery lines were fantastic in not just their tapers but in bringing s a slick, dry coating that went all the way to the core. To get a brand new slick, dry finish on your line with just a swipe with a micro-abrasive pad was a vast improvement over simple coatings that needed treatments to work and could wear off.
I prefer Textured over the Sharkskin because it is easier on the hands and guide epoxy and it costs less.
Both of the lines with textured surfaces shoot better and therefore cast further and take less energy to use throughout a normal fishing trip.
I'm fairly certain that the better shootability is because there is less surface area hitting the guides and blank.
Maybe, just maybe, textured lines also hold loop shape better and are affected by wind less because they are textured. There's a reason golf and tennis balls are also textured, no?
Again the sound the textured lines make doesn't bother me at all. In running water it is hardly noticable and in quiet areas it became just one of the sounds I got used to like crickets chirping and birds singing. The sound, just as in music, seems to be a matter of personal choice as to how one feels about it.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

Great stuff as always. I have a friend who fishes Sharkskin lines and they like most have acknowledged, are loud in contrast to other non textured lines. I would guess in moveing water noise of the line would not be so much an issue, if however when in still water that might make a big difference in spooking fish or not. Noise in any form while fishing has always been seen as something to avoid unless like bass fishing or topwater action, that's the point.

I still like line that keeps noise to a minimum and so opt for smooth lines. My friend, he still catches fish with his noisy line, I however, most times, catch more fish, maybe I'm better but he would say he taught me and I'm " lucky!

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Old 04-24-2013, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

This really turned out to be a great thread, some great stories and technical data as well!

Does anyone have a feel for the quality of the Airflo lines versus SA or Rio? One of the fly shops I do business with sells SA and the Airflo lines.

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm going rod shopping over the next week or so. This will be the second time I've purchased a fly rod and the first time I feel like I know what I'm looking for, at least when it comes to fly lines!

Thanks!


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Old 04-24-2013, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

The reason I choose this line was the head configuration it is over 65ft. I wanted if for a 496 Sage Z axis . It has allowed me to single Spey cast and over hand cast with this rod very well , I also like the color .was only offered in texture but have had no issues with the noise ,noting close to sharkskin . I bought a sharkskin early on but didn't care for it at all, tip sank, and was very noisy.

---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by ts47 View Post
This really turned out to be a great thread, some great stories and technical data as well!

Does anyone have a feel for the quality of the Airflo lines versus SA or Rio? One of the fly shops I do business with sells SA and the Airflo lines.

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm going rod shopping over the next week or so. This will be the second time I've purchased a fly rod and the first time I feel like I know what I'm looking for, at least when it comes to fly lines!

Thanks!


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No problem with Airflo lines cast very well and holdup very well. Just ready available in my area as SA and Rio.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Textured or not?

By the way... Here's my takeaway from all this.

Sharkskin: Very loud, texture like sand paper, need stripping glove or bring band aids, also may be tough on rod guides, does have performance benefit in mending and perhaps shooting/casting, but not more so than textured lines.

Textured: Mends better than smooth lines, may shoot/cast better than smooth lines(some of the decision here may be based on the skill level of the person casting), noise level low to medium(sounds like crinkling leaves as it runs through the guides), sound does not transfer into the water - at least not enough to spook the fish, no problems with rod guides, no need for a casting glove or band aids.

Smooth: No reason not to use, still a great option as long as you buy a quality line, no noise

Quality brands to consider Scientific Angler, Rio, Cortland and Airflo. The top end lines in these brands are the best.

I also picked up another interesting piece of information assuming I understood it properly. A line's ability to give a delicate presentation can be positively influenced by a longer rear taper.

Did I get it right? And thanks again for all the input!
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