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axle27 04-24-2013 12:51 PM

Lines
 
I won a nice, custom built 9ft 7wt at a local gathering last weekend. It's pretty fast and the 7wt line I have (RIO Bass/Musky WF7F) but I'm thinking more of a WF8F.

1- I already have a 7 that will use the above mentioned Bass/Musky line. Should I consider a Sink-tip for streamers and lake fishing or just go with a WF8F?

2- What lines do you guys recommend? I really like the SA Lefty Kreh lines...they seem real slick when shooting line. Alot faster than the bass/musky.

kwb 04-24-2013 01:10 PM

Re: Lines
 
The last thing I would do to ANY rod is over-line it if you are over-head casting with it...

If you have a 7 wt floating head, then yes, I would go with a sink tip line...

I really dig the SA Mastery Textured SW Clear Tip - GREAT LINE

If you need a faster sinking line, the streamer express is also a GREAT LINE

A line that doesn't get much publicity is SA's mastery wet tip "comes in various sink rates" fly line, my favorite sink tip line I have ever used, by far if I need a faster sink rate than the clear tip line offers...

MoscaPescador 04-24-2013 01:47 PM

Re: Lines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by axle27 (Post 549795)
I won a nice, custom built 9ft 7wt at a local gathering last weekend. It's pretty fast and the 7wt line I have (RIO Bass/Musky WF7F) but I'm thinking more of a WF8F.

Go to your local shop, and borrow a demo reel that is spooled up with an eight weight line (heck, try a nine weight line if you really feel like it). Do some parking lot casting with a big puffy indicator tied to the end of the leader. If you like that line, then you will know what choice to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by axle27 (Post 549795)
1- I already have a 7 that will use the above mentioned Bass/Musky line. Should I consider a Sink-tip for streamers and lake fishing or just go with a WF8F?

Ask your fishing buddies or the guys at your local fly shop for what is the best line strategy for your region and how you fish (walk and wade, float tube, boat).

Quote:

Originally Posted by axle27 (Post 549795)
2- What lines do you guys recommend? I really like the SA Lefty Kreh lines...they seem real slick when shooting line. A lot faster than the bass/musky.

I'm a big fan of the Rio Outbound Short lines. These are integrated shooting heads that are overlined by two line sizes. These were designed to help rods throw large payloads.

Dennis

kwb 04-24-2013 02:36 PM

Re: Lines
 
If your casting in a parking lot with a line that is heavier "over-lining", it's not going to show nearly as much as say it would if you were casting on water. Not to mention the fact you have to account for the fly being pulled from the water. Then if you are talking sink tips, you have a whole new realm of drag on the line by the water...

So what may not "fold" the rod in the parking lot, may very well "fold" it on the water...

If you have a shop with a casting pond, now that would be ideal...

Guest1 04-24-2013 03:54 PM

Re: Lines
 
Fast and weight are not actually related. Makers of fast rods often overrate the rods they make, but that does not mean yours is. Personally, I have a very fast 8 wt. that has a higher ERN, but I still have an 8 wt. line on it. You need to carry more line to load it, but you can cast it a long way like that.

I would test it to see what it really is, because fast is not related to that. Then decide what you want to do with it as far as how far you need to cast it. If it turns out to be a 9 and you are casting in the short ranges, go get a 9. If it is actually a 7 I would stay at a 7 regardless of short casting ranges. If you are trying to hit 100' type zones you may want to go down a weight, provided it really is a 7. Test, then try a couple lines if you have a place you can do that. If not, test and make the decision then, but test it either way.

Over or underlining a rod without really knowing what it actually is (not what they claim it is, different things 99% of the time) is ill advised.

oarfish 04-24-2013 05:47 PM

Re: Lines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoscaPescador (Post 549814)
Go to your local shop, and borrow a demo reel that is spooled up with an eight weight line (heck, try a nine weight line if you really feel like it). Do some parking lot casting with a big puffy indicator tied to the end of the leader. If you like that line, then you will know what choice to make.



Ask your fishing buddies or the guys at your local fly shop for what is the best line strategy for your region and how you fish (walk and wade, float tube, boat).



I'm a big fan of the Rio Outbound Short lines. These are integrated shooting heads that are overlined by two line sizes. These were designed to help rods throw large payloads.

Dennis

Dennis has made a great point with the Rio Outbound Short lines, I use an 11 & 12 in the salt with lots of wind, Rio hit the mark with this model.

Rick

duker 04-24-2013 08:45 PM

Re: Lines
 
I've heard of a lot of anglers that overline their rods, usually by one, but that has never seemed like a good idea to me (and Diver Dan confirmed my suspicions, I think). Aren't lines already more or less matched to the weight of rods they're designated for? I realize that some lines are already "overweighted" somewhat--I've got a Rio Grand on my 6-wt, which I understand is half a size heavier. Why would you overline a rod?

I was fishing in Belize earlier in March--my first time saltwater fly fishing--and used an 8-wt tropical line on my 8-wt. rod. It cast fine, even with a bit of wind. One of the guides and a number of the guests told me that a lot of saltwater anglers overline their rods--casting a 9-wt. line on an 8-wt. rod, 10-wt line on a 9, etc. They claimed overlining made the rods easier to cast, especially since saltwater fly rods tend to be stiffer and faster and you often cast in the wind a lot. That makes some sense, but I'm still a skeptic.

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack the thread, but I find the discussion on overlining interesting.

Scott

newby 04-25-2013 12:12 AM

Re: Lines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duker (Post 549933)
I've heard of a lot of anglers that overline their rods, usually by one, but that has never seemed like a good idea to me (and Diver Dan confirmed my suspicions, I think). Aren't lines already more or less matched to the weight of rods they're designated for? I realize that some lines are already "overweighted" somewhat--I've got a Rio Grand on my 6-wt, which I understand is half a size heavier. Why would you overline a rod?

I was fishing in Belize earlier in March--my first time saltwater fly fishing--and used an 8-wt tropical line on my 8-wt. rod. It cast fine, even with a bit of wind. One of the guides and a number of the guests told me that a lot of saltwater anglers overline their rods--casting a 9-wt. line on an 8-wt. rod, 10-wt line on a 9, etc. They claimed overlining made the rods easier to cast, especially since saltwater fly rods tend to be stiffer and faster and you often cast in the wind a lot. That makes some sense, but I'm still a skeptic.

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack the thread, but I find the discussion on overlining interesting.

Scott

The problem that comes in here is that fly rod manufacturers do not have a universal system for rod weights. Hence, a manufacturer may make a distance orientated 5 wt and we find that it's ERN (effective rod number) actually indicates that it should be casting a 6 or 7 wt line to load it. In other words, because manufacturers don't have a system to determine line weight and adhere to it, any given rod may be, in reality, not marked appropriately.

That's fine and all if you have a 5wt that should be casting a 7wt and you only need the rod for distance. But it is definitely not ok in an average trout fishing situation in which it is vital to be able to feel the rod load and cast ~40 feet. I have overlined rods and it works really well in some cases.

axle27 04-25-2013 07:51 AM

Re: Lines
 
I've spoken to the guy who built it and he said that he always overlines this particular manufacturer's blank by 1 wt. Although I'm not a mechanical engineer, I would think that the action of the rod has some say on this as the stiffer "faster" actions will be slowed by the extra weight. Also, most rods that chuck larger streamers usually are faster action BECAUSE the larger, non-aerodynamic streamers slow it down...and for distance.

I really don't consider a rod like a 7wt to be used in anything less than 20 ft. I'm looking in the 40 -60 ft range. Not much more than that is my limit in my casting ability...until you put the 10wt in my hands, then I'm good to about 85-90ft. I really do need to practice more, though.

kwb 04-25-2013 09:55 AM

Re: Lines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by axle27 (Post 550039)
I've spoken to the guy who built it and he said that he always overlines this particular manufacturer's blank by 1 wt. Although I'm not a mechanical engineer, I would think that the action of the rod has some say on this as the stiffer "faster" actions will be slowed by the extra weight. Also, most rods that chuck larger streamers usually are faster action BECAUSE the larger, non-aerodynamic streamers slow it down...and for distance.

I really don't consider a rod like a 7wt to be used in anything less than 20 ft. I'm looking in the 40 -60 ft range. Not much more than that is my limit in my casting ability...until you put the 10wt in my hands, then I'm good to about 85-90ft. I really do need to practice more, though.

"Faster" technically should mean the recovery speed of the graphite used in the blank...

You can have a fast rod that flexes deeper...

The best way to describe flex is full, mid or tip...

Tip action rods are typically harder for novice casters to feel them load thus many over-line them, but then you are over-loading the tip and it effects accuracy...

The term "fast" is used more as a marketing term nowadays than the way it really should be, everyone wants faster, stronger, etc...

My no BS opinion, cast some different lines on the rod on the water and make up your own mind as everyone is going to be different. I have owned and cast a LOT of different 7 weights in my life, never once have I felt like over-lining was necessary BUT if your rod builder suggests over-lining it, I bet he has an 8 weight line you can test cast on it...

Have you even tried the 7 weight line you own on the rod???


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