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Old 05-02-2013, 05:43 AM
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Default Re: How is Rio Grande different than just over lining?

Why don't they just sell lines by grain weight so we know what we are buying?? I guess this would be to simple.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:06 AM
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Default Re: How is Rio Grande different than just over lining?

Much data is available from RIO and others on the weight of the first 30' and total head weight. Along with this and at least as important, is the taper diagram illustrating where mass is located in the lines design. It is a myth, at least partially so, that faster action more powerful rods need over lining. Some do, some don't, this is a rod design issue. A line like Grande is not simply nearly a line size heavy, it is also tapered for aggressive deliveries; larger, heavier or wind resistant bulky flies. It lacks the smooth stable charm of Gold with its longer front taper and extended rear taper. Long rear tapers not only facilitate reaching and mending and eliminate hinging but they also promote long cast loop stability after the whole head is out the tip-top. Gold, SA Expert Distance, Cortland BOSS and a new Airflo line all incorporate this 20 - 25' rear taper (initially developed by Bruce Richards at SA).

Knowing the grain weight of a lines 30' and total head is good but you still need to cast different lines on a given rod to determine what it likes best in your hands. Sometimes differences are subtle, with other rods, extreme. Some rods are easy: along with 3 expert casting friends, we lawn cast my beloved Zenith #5 with 3 lines prior to Hendricksons starting. It cast all 3 just fine and we had to repeat the process 3 times to give one line the edge and I am still uncertain we were right (I've been fishing RIO Gold on it but we decided Cortland's new Trout BOSS might have a slight edge...I did bring a fine brown to net with it later in the afternoon). Other rods, my favorite bonefish rod the Loomis NRX #8 comes to mind, are more line temperamental. I tried lots of #8, 8.5 and even 9 lines on it before finding two that sang a sweet song; RIO's #8.5 Tarpon and even better, SA's #8 Textured Saltwater...lighter but a more aggressive taper.

There is plenty of science in rod-line mating but even more feeling. The problem is getting a broad assortment of lines to comparatively experiment with. Employ your friends as a resource; switch like sized lines among your different 5-weight (or whatever) rods and feel the difference. Oh, and it wold be great if line makers would make their best designs in 1/2 size increments.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: How is Rio Grande different than just over lining?

Harbor Freight now sells two scales that are really inexpensive. I purchased another offering they had a few years ago, and its pretty accurate. I've been happy with it. Here are two links to the ones they offer now.

Digital Pocket Scale

1000 Gram Digital Scale

"Duker" As far as CCS and rods, I still use the coin method as weights, but also include quarters nickels and dimes. I then take the bag, set the scale to grains, and measure the actual weight.

A cheap scale like the ones posted above, can help simplify things.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: How is Rio Grande different than just over lining?

I finally got a chance to cast a Rio Gold on the XP today. It was quite nice, granted in a parking lot. I fished the rod with my 6wt line (I don't know anymore what the actual line is, it's quite a few years old and frankly, before I tended to much to the knowledge of lines) last week and liked it. But the Gold on the pavement was good, loaded really well at 30-40'. Further than that I started to tail the forward loop. I'll need to learn to not over power this rod and let it work as I'm accustomed to casting a much softer, mid-flex Sage SPL. At any rate, I'm going with the Gold and look forward to casting tight loops and shooting this line. Seems like a good fit for the rod.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: How is Rio Grande different than just over lining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimw View Post
Why don't they just sell lines by grain weight so we know what we are buying?? I guess this would be to simple.
Interesting bit is if you buy a line for a 2hander that's just exactly what you get printed on the box. The next 'question' is over what run of line; that can be all over the map on occasion. Short skagits, Scandi, Mid-belly, etc.
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Old 05-04-2013, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: How is Rio Grande different than just over lining?

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Originally Posted by dean_mt View Post
But my question remains, how is it different than simply over lining, though I assume I already know the answer...it isn't!
You are correct. It isn't.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: How is Rio Grande different than just over lining?

So it looks like Grand is up by a full size and Gold is the new Grand in terms of grain weight. I have an older version of Grand that I'm almost certain was .5 over the rated 5wt. The Gold versions I own were I think .25 over. These are previous years models of line.

I also noticed that the Rio Switch Line went up in weight. The line rated for 6/7 is now 500 grains versus the 400+ that my current line has.

I can't help but think that previous versions of the line were developed for the Z Axis rods in mind and now with the One, we have heavier lines.

Admittedly, I'm a little late to the game on this discussion, but this is good reason why the current methods of labeling line as X weight just don't make sense. I've long used Rio's lines but this sort of thing really turns me off. As one who appreciates older fly rods, I'm really going to have to pay attention to this in order to get line that matches the rods I want to put them on. Especially considering the cost of them. I wish they'd just keep it consistent or develop new/separate lines every time the manufacturers come out with new rods.
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