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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2012, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Made in China

I can't really separate the politics from the products. China could make the best reel on the planet and I would still buy somewhere else if there's an option.

I had the pleasure of meeting a woman who had the manufacturing of her jewelry done in China and her experience was that you could set standards all you want and they will meet them...for awhile. Without constant vigilance, corners started being cut. She finally gave up on fighting to maintain quality and moved her production elsewhere.

Our company briefly played at having printing done in China. The quality was fantastic, but our environmental standards (we exceed what is required at our US facilities) were not an option in China. They really don't give a rat's posterior what they pump into the air and water. In the end, the cost savings weren't what they thought and we abandoned the project.

Last edited by pa dave; 01-01-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Made in China

Herein lies another problem to ponder regarding Asian vs American. I have noticed American companies as well on the scramble to reduce pricing to compete with the Asian lower cost lines. It has become painfuly obvious that some of the materials and components of american lower priced rods have suffered emensly. I won't give any names, but there a more than a few companies whose lower priced lines have got some of the crappiest reel seats I have ever seen. paper thin poorly coated aluminum, and simply horrible insert woods. lower modulus materials to cut costs as well. So on an apples to apples comparison on price alone, some of the American copetitive lines have become nowhere even close to what some of the Asian made brands are offereing now. Its a very tough spot for American companies to be in. This will no doubt sort itself out in the next few years.

Should high end American companies even attempt to gain the lower priced market? I wonder if redington outsells sage and by how much in recent times?
TFO? Whats the market share? It makes you wonder if American companies can do anything about the changing tides.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Made in China

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Originally Posted by pa dave View Post
I had the pleasure of meeting a woman who had the manufacturing of her jewelry done in China and her experience was that you could set standards all you want and they will meet them...for awhile. Without constant vigilance, corners started being cut. She finally gave up on fighting to maintain quality and moved her production elsewhere.
I play guitar (classical), and have seen companies move their production to China. Yamaha has an excellent facilty, and it would rival any production guitar factory in the world. Other guitar companies are just looking for cheap labor and materials, and those guitars are mostly inferior. Kenny Hill owns a guitar workshop in California, and employs 15-25 people depending on demand. The U.S. made Hill guitars sell for $4,000-$8,000, and are widely regarded as fine imstruments. About 12 years ago, Kenny found a shop in Mexico to build cheaper versions of his instruments. Some were good, and some were bad. Inconsistent finish was the worst problem, mostly due to a lack of humidity control, and application flaws. Hill found a violin shop in China, and they agreed to make guitars for him. He flies over to China throughout the year, to make sure that standards are being met. Those guitars sell for $1,000-$1,800. The problem is, they also have flaws, and Hill sells the flawed guitars for a lower price. Once again, a lack of humidity control leaves too much moisture in the woods used, and cracks develop very quickly once they arrive in the U.S.

I can't separate politics from product either, and don't buy anything from China that is available allies of the U.S. (that includes the SLV reels I own that were made in Taiwan). China's new wealth has led them to pursue a larger military. Who in the world would they need to use that military against? US!!! I would rather not finance their military ambitions any more than I would finance terrorists (not saying the Chinese are terrorists). I'd rather keep the U.S. military the world's finest and most effective fighting force, and the Chinese can make those little cocktail umbrellas for all I care. We're forced to buy cell phones, Ipods, etc from China, but I don't own much in the way of electronics for that very reason.

When we talk about Korth Korea, the fact that the Korean war never really ended is always brought up. What's not heard very often is that we fought and killed more Chinese in that war, than N. Koreans. I have to wonder whether the Chinese would join the N. Koreans if the truce is broken. With a larger, more effective military, they would certainly have greater leverage in the matter (best case scenario). The Chinese were successful in holding the line during the war, but were unable to win because we were better equipped. Chinese industry has grown because we buy their products. They now have the cash and skilled workers to arm themselves much better than before. Do you want to fund them further? Not Me! I would like to see cordial relations we all reasonable nations, but China has made it clear they want to control that region of the world. That's a big piece of the pie, and I'd hate to see us pushed out.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

I'm the one who started this thread, and I'm glad i did. It's been very educational. Ironically i am now looking at the Speyco reels mentioned above. Works of art, really and for very reasonable money and made in the U.S. So it can be done!
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

I buy a whole bunch of TFO purely because its a great product for cheap. Sure their reel seats suck but hey they cast nice. Im not worried about china attacking. We are their main money source. why would they destroy what fills their wallets?
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Made in China

It's not an issue of China attacking the United States. It's a matter of China wanting the U.S. military out of the South China Sea region, and that is at odds with current Pentagon policy: Top Chinese general takes aim at U.S. military policy - CNN There's quite a bit going on in this region, and many nations have laid claim to the same piece of the pie:

I'm neither a Democrat, nor Republican. I am an American. My first interest in our nation, and not turning a profit in China. One has to wonder why the Chinese decided to become capitalists, and how long it will last. It could last for quite some time if it increases China's standing in world politics, and feeds over a billion people. Even as the Maoists die off, they will be replaced by people whose first interest is China (just as our interests should be focusing on keeping the U.S. a vital international power, with a healthy domestic economy). I can't find fault in the Chinese wanting to do well for themselves, but it might not always be in our best interest.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

by the way... I have american friend not сhinese & more like Made in USA
Today came across an article... in the middle of the post the idea of ​​"Made in China" - Bauer Fly Reels, made in Oregon: Factory tour and interview | The Caddis Fly: Oregon Fly Fishing Blog link on oregonflyfishingblog, post about Bauer Fly Reels
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

I was on the whole "anti-china" band wagon however you can't get around it at all. I quickly found myself a hippocrite.

Remember 'Drill Baby Drill" most of the steel for the pipe for oil/gas pipelines come from China. Most of the steel forgings for the meters, valves, pumps, well heads, blowout preventors...........are from China. This is far far more of your dollars (you pay at the pump and your utility bill) than the fly tackle we buy each year.

If you say you are against buying from China but your or your family shop at Best Buy, Home Depot, Loews, Target, Walmart, Walgreens..................................... then you might look a bit inward. Heck just look at the back of the computer system you type your response on, bet you a Hares Ear you find China somewhere in that system.

My point is why focus on the Fly Fishing industry (if it is large enough to call an "industry)? The shops and companies are tiny compared to rest of the world economy, IMHO let them alone. Sure if you can afford local go for it.

Pete A.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

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Originally Posted by wt bash View Post
Every Orvis reel I've owned was either English or Korean made. China made poisonous tooth paste and kids' candy/toys that contained toxic chemicals, dog food and flea repellant that killed peoples' pets on top of other **** that's imported here. So for me, when it comes to my fly fishing gear "a poor man cannot afford to buy cheap gear".
As well as all the Poisonous stuff above China knew that Baby Food being made in China also contained poison however they did nothing because they were afraid it would affect The Attendances to The Games.

I also bought one of The Latest Orvis Reels fron England,it says on The Box Made In China,I have 2 White River Reels Made in Korea,sold by Bass Pro & they are quite Good.

Also some time ago I bought a Reel on eBay from a site in Scotland,I recieved it in Australia for about $50 which at the time I thought was reasonable.
I Googled The Name on The Reel & was directed to a Marketing site where just for an exercise I bought The Same Reel for US $23,they are now $26, delivered to Australia from China.
The Reel has 2 Bearings & a One way Bearing,comes in 5 Colours,is Virtually The Same as many others being sold for up to a couple of Hundred Dollars plus,believe me The Reels are Quite Good as I gave them a good examining being A Mechanical Engineer with a background in Toolmaking & all aspects of Metrology,the only difference I found was The Difference of The Machining Patterns.
So The Bottom line is how much do they really produce them for,they are sold By A Retailler Via a Marketting Company & are Shipped to Australia?
All or most of our Industries have either moved offshore & things we once made now mainly comes from China.
Brian
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

Brian, just supplied very large orde for high integrity pipeline seals (made in US) to an offshore underwater pipeline project engineered in Houston, TX procured in Houston, TX and sold to BHP Billiton for North West Austrailia.

ALL of the pipe is coming in from China, much of the work will be perfomed by Australian and Mylasian (spelling) contractors. Much of the valves, controls are Chinese & Indian integrated by Austrailan & US engineers.

However much/most of the oil will be sold to China. Sounds like a trading partner not a competitor. A handful of chinese reels are far less $$ out of Aus than incoming oil $$ from China.

Pete A.
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