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Old 06-04-2012, 03:06 PM
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Default Made in China

Hello everyone,

I've just started researching new reels for the first time in a long time. I've looked at Orvis, Ross, Galvin, Lamson, etc.
But I have noticed a "But it's made in China" as that were the killer. So are Apple products, and Microsoft products, etc.
I own:
Lamson
Hardy (Old collection from friend)
Ross (Big one)
Ross Flystart 1
Pflueger (old metal one in pristine conditions, 4")
Orvis CFO, green.
ARgus - NOTE: this is a small reel for a 3-5 line. it has, by far, the best drag of all the above reels except the Ross & Lamson. Got it as a package for my son's 1rst rod 2 yrs. ago.

I don't know which ones were made in china. Surely the ARgus was. Hardy, no, Old Pflueger, no, CFO, no (says made in England)

But what is the beef with Chinese made products, i.e. quality. Not patriotism, please. Let's stick with quality. I'm pretty sure most of Orvis stuff is made there. Most of Orvis I like. So, where's the beef? Are they truly inferior or is it xenophobia?

Thanks,

Dennis

p.s. Let's keep it civil, please.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Made in China

Besides trying to support American jobs or capitalism vs communism, its about quality.

The overall quality of products manufactured in China has come way up in recent years, but its still not up to the same level as the US, Japan, or Korea, generally speaking.

That said, I'd sooner have a fly reel made in China than one made in Burma or India.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

I have also looked at this and spoke to someone connected with Orvis, most of the parts are made in US and UK, BUT they are assembled in china, i dont know if this is 100% right, any thoughts
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

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Originally Posted by gaz19 View Post
I have also looked at this and spoke to someone connected with Orvis, most of the parts are made in US and UK, BUT they are assembled in china, i dont know if this is 100% right, any thoughts
Parts made here, shipped over there for assembly, and back here to be sold?

In this day of JIT and high fuel prices, I'm amazed that business model still exists.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

I generally agree with the sentiment of the OP.

The country it was built in is less important (at least to me) than the company that engineers, controls, and dictates to the manufacturer the expectation. If Orvis has stuff built in China, it doesn't automatically make it an inferior product. Orvis still dictates the materials to be used, the quality expectations, and the processes in which it is built, inspected, packaged, etc....

Where I do have a problem with China is the Chinese based companies copying other companies designs and selling the product as a cheaper alternative. My company build's tradeshow exhibits and I am frequently traveling to many different trade events. One show I went to was an HVAC show in Orlando. One of my customers makes A/C units and one morning, before the show opened, I was walking towards the booth to do a pre-show inspection. As I am walking down this aisle, I see some people on the floor in front of the booth. As I get closer, I realize that these people have taken one of the units off of its display podium and are completely disassembling it and photographing it's components. It turns out that this was a Chinese company. I also learned since then, that this happens more often than I imagined and the culprits are typically Chinese based companies.

Once this happens, the Chinese companies don't demand the same level of quality that other companies demand. Metals may be an inferior grade, clearances may be less stringent, etc....all of those things lead to an inferior product, but again, it's the company dictating the quality that controls this.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz19 View Post
I have also looked at this and spoke to someone connected with Orvis, most of the parts are made in US and UK, BUT they are assembled in china, i dont know if this is 100% right, any thoughts

Although some people sneer at all "Asian" products, there's a big difference between more mature manufacturing countries like Japan and Korea and still-developing ones like China and Thailand. Given China's reputation for inconsistent quality, it wouldn't surprise me that established brands with a reputation to protect (like Orvis) would need to import a lot of components into China if they are doing final assembly there. There are a lot of low-quality brand "x" knockoffs made in China, but the big brands do have good reason to try to maintain quality control.

The Hardy guy at a recent trade show told me that although they now do most of their manufacturing and assembly in Korea, there are some parts that they ship from their factory in the UK. For example, they can get higher-quality aluminum in Korea, with fewer defects, so they mill the barstock frames in Korea, but they can get harder, higher-quality stainless steel in the UK, so they make the drag pawls in the UK. He said the Korean cost advantage over the UK has less to do with lower labor costs than with the lower wastage rate made possible by the availability of superior raw materials.

Look at what has happened in cars and electronics. It wasn't so long ago that "made in Japan" meant low quality, but now it means durability and precision engineering. Even more recently, Korea has followed the same pattern. Maybe one day China will too, but that day is not here yet.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

Every Orvis reel I've owned was either English or Korean made. China made poisonous tooth paste and kids' candy/toys that contained toxic chemicals, dog food and flea repellant that killed peoples' pets on top of other **** that's imported here. So for me, when it comes to my fly fishing gear "a poor man cannot afford to buy cheap gear".
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Made in China

I have no desire to do business with a country whose government supports every despot regime around the world and treats their citizens so terribly. I wish all Americans would give thought to what their dollars are supporting when they buy Chinese.

No apologies here, and I will not be led down the road of isolating my morals from the opportunity to save a dollar.

Dave
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:44 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Made in China

One that I can think of (Reels) are hand made at an affordable price here in the US:

SpeyCo Reels out of Greenbay. Kids, you could 'pound nails' with these things, they are that well made. Annual 'maintenance?' A bit of paper towel to wipe the inside out and a drop or two of good oil/grease.

Everyone of these is 'hand made' and they're quality, at a very affordable price.

Period.

Fred Evans
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Made in China

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaevans View Post
One that I can think of (Reels) are hand made at an affordable price here in the US:

SpeyCo Reels out of Greenbay. Kids, you could 'pound nails' with these things, they are that well made. Annual 'maintenance?' A bit of paper towel to wipe the inside out and a drop or two of good oil/grease.

Everyone of these is 'hand made' and they're quality, at a very affordable price.

Period.

Fred Evans
Oh man those have been on my radar for a while. It will happen the second I can afford to treat myself.
One of those belongs on my double hander and I can't imagine ever wanting another reel.
Glad to see them get mentioned.
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