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Old 07-27-2013, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

My Abels have been dunked in saltwater many times. Water does not affect the performance of the drag, since it is cork creating friction against the flat aluminum underside of the spool. There's no room for water to get between the cork and the spool with the drag set properly. Cork naturally repels liquid, which is why it is used in wine bottles to seal in the good stuff.

There's also no porting around the face of the drag or underside of the spool to allow anything in there to interfere with the drag performance. This applies to both solid frame reels or ported reels.

If you get sand in your reel, it will only be between the frame and spool, which could happen on ANY reel. just dunk it and rinse the sand out, and then get back to the fish.

Abels are made of anodized aircraft-grade aluminum and stainless steel. There are no plastic parts and nothing for saltwater to ruin. They are purposely built to withstand years of use in tough conditions whether salt or fresh water.

Another reel that I rarely see mentioned is the Ross Momentum LT. I have the older version of the Momentum, and it performs great in the salt water as well.

Dunk away! It will not affect performance of a good quality reel that's built for the salt.

-VB

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

Abel reel deconstructed:

A lot has been said about the virtues of solid frames vs. ported frames and sealed drags vs. other types.

This should provide a visual of what's going on inside the cork drag of an Abel.

Essentially, solid frame or ported frame is a matter of cosmetic preference and weight more than anything else.

The drag itself is the same, and the surfaces at work with the drag are not affected by whether the reel is ported or solid.

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A sealed drag requires no maintenance. However, it also cannot be maintained by the user if something fails inside. The cork drag itself is sealed. Nothing can get between the cork and aluminum face when you're fishing, unless you introduce abrasive debris between the two when you have the reel apart for maintenance.

I primarily fish in the surf, so I am standing in beach sand and in just a couple of feet of water, so I am more likely to get sand in my reel than someone fishing offshore or inshore flats or bays. I've dunked my reels and they've landed in the sand many times. However, the sand cannot affect the drag operation itself, but can get between the spool and frame edges, which you will see and feel very quickly. Every fly reel is susceptible to this whether the drag is sealed or not.

A solid frame reel will not prevent grit from coming between the spool and frame if it lands in the sand.

I hope this helps provide a visual perspective of the simplicity of the inner workings of Abel Super Series reels. By the way, the bearings are sealed and contained within the hub of the spool.

Cheers,

-VB
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

von behr - Thank you very much for the internal photos of the Abel. That helps a lot to understand the drag.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneltyr View Post
von behr - Thank you very much for the internal photos of the Abel. That helps a lot to understand the drag.
My pleasure, sir. I'm glad to help.

-VB
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneltyr View Post
One thing that does concern me is the Spool Change. If I am out wading with the wife and we want to change lines for some reason I'd like it to be quick. This is the only thing that holds me back on getting a used Tibor Everglades or Abel 3n. Can't afford the Everglades QC.

I'm not sure if I need an extra line or spool for Redfish, Speckled Trout or Bonefish. i havent had anyone answer that question yet. If the answer is no then a used Everglades or Abel 3n may be the best choice.
I used to think I would change lines regularly and that is why I got a QC and some time later a spare spool. I very rarely if ever change lines on the water as my water depth doesn't change radically in a session. I find myself very rarely changing between an Inter and floating or sinking in a session. Think about the fishing you'll do before you buy as you maybe better off with a cheap line winder.

Over time you will accumulate additional rods and reals that can remain in your collection as backups and be strung with different lines.

Good luck with the tough decision...

Adam
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

On my second trip out with my 7/8N I dropped it in the sand after it was good and wet. I was mortified. When I turned the spool it sounded like a cement mixer. The fix was simple, I just dunked it several times in the salt water and went on fishing like nothing ever happened. Before I left the beach for the long drive home, I loosened the drag knob out to the stop and rinsed it real good in the water fountain. This all happened around 2am on a new moon by the way. When I got home I did my usual post fishing rinse in the shower and set it off to dry. The next morning I took it apart to see how much sand was in it only to find the smallest bit in the grease of the pawl spring. I simple wipe down removed the last little bit. Needless to say I was very pleased with how fast I was back in the game and how well the reel performs in all conditions. When I bought the reel I wanted a classic that didn't dance to the current marketing hype. What I got was all that plus an actual real life hardcore reel that performs better than anything else I have owned in the toughest environments. Expensive yes, worth it, you bet you sweet cheeks.

Some may balk about the spool change process but in all the years I have fished not once have I ever needed too. I have had reels with spare spools loaded and ready to go just sit in their pouch year after year. I can't handle that sort of guilt so now even if I could get another spool and change it easily, I don't. Besides, it doesn't take that long to changes lines themselves.
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

VB,

Is the drag gear bearing a press fit, sealed bearing on that reel?

Thanks.
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

I virtually never change spools. I change lines on a reel by having a Bimini in my backing and a secure loop on the rear of each line. Simply wind off and on in my living room or camp with a plastic line spool and two pencils. As you are targeting bones/reds and I think you said squatique (spec. trout) you likely would have but one line; a tropical floater. SA, RIO and Airflo all make a fine line in this category and the brand and model best for you is not which is the best line but rather the best match for the rod you will be fishing.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

Quote:
As you are targeting bones/reds and I think you said squatique (spec. trout) you likely would have but one line; a tropical floater. SA, RIO and Airflo all make a fine line in this category and the brand and model best for you is not which is the best line but rather the best match for the rod you will be fishing.
S & S - I think you are right! Thanks for all your input and patience with me. All my thoughts on reels have been going through an evolution since I started asking questions.

Quote:
I change lines on a reel by having a Bimini in my backing and a secure loop on the rear of each line. Simply wind off and on in my living room or camp with a plastic line spool and two pencils.
S&S - Can you "blow this up for me" so I can better understand? Maybe a picture if you have it. I love knots and would like to try it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

For some fishing, I change out spools depending on the conditions - mainly if whomever I'm fishing with has his own 12 wt or not. If he does, then I have two separate 12 weights set up.

Though it's nice to have quick change spools with the captive nut, it certainly is not necessary.

Since most of my fishing is done from a boat, there is almost zero chance to lose the draw bar nut, though I have an extra.

I change spools freqently enough that the little draw bar caps are in a shot glass in my cubboard. They are purely for show and irrelavent from a functional standpoint. In the picture below you can see the shiny spot in the middle of the drag knob. That's the end of the drawbar that I never put those little caps on.

That way I don't have to remove them when changing spools. So, since I don't have to mess with springs, end caps or any tool at all this is very nearly as fast as a quick change - taking maybe 20 seconds at most in tough conditions. All I do is spin the drag nut off, pull out the spool with draw bar intact within it, insert new spool (with drag bar already in it) and spinn the drag nut back on.
Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.

Though you cannot tell from the pictures, there is a glob of extra drag grease stuck to the inside of the reel frame.

The picture below shows the offset reel foot. This balances the reel perfectly so it hangs plumb under the rod handle. It also pushes the spool toward the wind side and makes it easier to level the line when retreiving backing and fly line.
Click the image to open in full size.

As many have said, backup reels are important. And as a buddy of mine says, you could hammer most ported reels flat with a Tibor, and go right back to fishing.

My Tibor maintenance consists of a hose down, most days. Often even that doesn't get done since I like to sleep ocassionally. My Nautilus' reels get the same. Though I wouldn't intentionally submerge the Tibors, or set them in the sand (I set them in my hat on the beach), a quick dunking does not result in enough water intrusion into the space between solid spool and solid frame side that it gets into the drag gear bearing grease.

If I dropped the entire reel in salt water, I'd just pull off the spool and fill the frame with bottled water a couple times, sloshing it around to get rid of the salt. At some point after the end of tarpon season I'd clean out the thrust bearing and repack with new grease.

The reels to avoid for saltwater, especially, are those without the drag easily accessable without tools yet not totally waterproof. If you are comfortable with a ported frame, go for it. I prefer solid frames and solid frame-side spools with draw bar drags.
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Last edited by wjc; 08-01-2013 at 08:12 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: "Dunkable" 8wt. Fly Reel?

There is a thread under fly lines you can search about "welded loops" that many of the same commenters here contributed to. The up-shot was that welded loops as supplied by line manufacturers on most contemporary lines are about 80% the strength of the line (20 to 35 lb. test depending on core material) and can crack. They can be brought up to full+ strength by mechanical reinforcement; I tie a 12+ turn nail knot over the doubled portion of the loop when new and there are other valid approaches. The Bimini Twist is a standard knot among salts that can form a large loop that will fit over a spool of line and is not hard to tie with a little practice; there are many internet illustrations and videos depicting this and I tie one in the backing on every reel/spool I have so I can loop-to-loop fly lines on and off.

Click the image to open in full size.

This image shows the nail knot reinforced loop and a double line Bimini to reduce smaller diameter line bite into the softer fly line coating.
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