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Old 09-03-2013, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Rod Spine...up or down?

Many places seem to say that building on the spine favors heaver, tougher rods, and building 180 from the spine seems to favor low weight, lighter rods.

The spine itself is the strongest part, and resists bending, thats why the rod will pop around it when you roll to find it. Think of it like you would your own body. Your spine runs down your back, if you wanted a nice smooth bend and to absorb a lot of pressure, you would put something in front of you and bend at your stomach. If you wanted a lot more resistance and and a less forgiving bend, you would place the object behind you, and try to bend backwards (granted, not too feasible for most humans, but you get the idea).
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Rod Spine...up or down?

Good, a little rod building talk. The fishing is **** around here and I'm going a little nuts.

I'll just say that I do not have anything to add on which side of the spine to mount your guides, I've read the arguments for both and while I wish I did, I do not know which is better or why.

I would however like to comment on the idea that there is a "strongest" part to a rod. I am assuming that when people make an argument about the stronger side that they do not mean stiffness rather in regard to breakage strength of the rod. The idea that there is a "stronger" side to a long shaft maybe true, there is more material on one side, or the there is a seam (point of weakness) along one side where the cylinder was closed. But when a rod breaks it breaks around the shaft, perpendicular to the length. I can see no way that putting pressure along the curve of a rod either with the spine up or down will have any effect on the strength of the rod.

I do not know the Physics of the problem at hand. This is only my assumption. I wish there was someone who could explain the Physics of the problem, because that is the only way to answer it.

Otherwise, if the concern over where the spine is placed in relationship to the guides is not about the breakage strength but about the casting ability of a regular fly rod, I don't think it is anything to lose sleep over. As said, 95% of fisherman will not be able to tell the difference.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: Rod Spine...up or down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean_mt View Post
Good, a little rod building talk. The fishing is **** around here and I'm going a little nuts.

I'll just say that I do not have anything to add on which side of the spine to mount your guides, I've read the arguments for both and while I wish I did, I do not know which is better or why.

I would however like to comment on the idea that there is a "strongest" part to a rod. I am assuming that when people make an argument about the stronger side that they do not mean stiffness rather in regard to breakage strength of the rod. The idea that there is a "stronger" side to a long shaft maybe true, there is more material on one side, or the there is a seam (point of weakness) along one side where the cylinder was closed. But when a rod breaks it breaks around the shaft, perpendicular to the length. I can see no way that putting pressure along the curve of a rod either with the spine up or down will have any effect on the strength of the rod.

I do not know the Physics of the problem at hand. This is only my assumption. I wish there was someone who could explain the Physics of the problem, because that is the only way to answer it.

Otherwise, if the concern over where the spine is placed in relationship to the guides is not about the breakage strength but about the casting ability of a regular fly rod, I don't think it is anything to lose sleep over. As said, 95% of fisherman will not be able to tell the difference.
I believe the "strength" that we (or most people) refer to when they say a rod is stronger on one side is really better described as the rod's resistance to bend.

As I mentioned, take the human body for example. The spine runs down our body, but obviously internally closer to our back than our front. You can think of the spine as a human bending forwards and backwards. If you build on the inside of the spine (on our chest), the rod will bend easier, and absorb more pressure (protecting light tippets more). If you build on the spine itself, our back, there is more resistance to bend and you will have more pulling/leverage power, as it is more resistant to bend at that angle.

As countless people have said, the difference here probably isn't very noticeable, but it certainly does exist.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Rod Spine...up or down?

I don't know anything about building rods, but I do know that all of my rods twist on a backcast in a counterclockwise direction looking down from the sky. And they twist in a clockwise direction on the forward cast.

How I know this is because I line the guides up 45 degrees out from my right side instead of in line with the reel like most people. That way I never get "haul jam" or haul "lock up" anymore, always have the same minimal friction on the haul, and get a better and more consistent shoot as a result. A lot of the competitive distance casters I see twist the rod 90 degrees on the forward cast, which amounts to the same thing I do - just an extra 45 degrees.

I can twist the top section alone of any of my rods 180 degrees (including 12 wts) holding the tip top between thumb and pinkie finger only and twisting. So I know that when I am casting, the tip top is twisting toward the direction of the line as the rod loads.

What a lot of rod builders will do down here do now (if the customer wants) is run the guides on big conventional rods in a spiral so the tip top is upside down relative to the reel. This precludes the inclination for the rod to twist while fighting fish - which I recall happening as a kid while fishing solid fiberglass conventional gear.

It really makes it hard cranking while your other hand is battling a lot of torsional strain as well as regular down strain. And every half turn of the crank is adding to the torsional strain on the other hand because you have to crank in the same direction as the torsional strain your rod hand is working against.

I didn't notice any difference in accuracy when I started twisting my rod sections out. And I've not broken any rods catching large tarpon with them twisted either - though I have had them wind up straight again at the end of a fight with one.

So I don't think that rod twisting while casting or fighting fish does any harm at all to a decent fly rod. But that is just the opinion of a fisherman, not a rod builder.
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