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Old 07-13-2017, 12:44 PM
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Question Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

I am a beginner rod builder, so this may just be a terrible idea. If so, no mercy, let me know.

I was thinking about developing a heavier/stiffer tip on my 10' 4wt, kind of bringing the bend further down into the rod to assist in roll casts and have a bit more mass/momentum up top to help really move line.

I was told by a "veteran rod builder" to increase the length of thread wraps on the upper guides. This would increase mass and help stiffen up the top section of my rod once epoxied.

Any advice on how long to increase the wrap length by? (wrap length on the other guides is about 5/8") Any advice on how many guides down from the tip top to do this to?



Once again if this is a stupid idea, let me hear about it.

Thanks

Johnny
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

Doesn't sound like a stupid idea, but how will you predict what the final product will be until you have it all done?
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

Glad to hear that you don't think it is a bad idea.

I mean, the only prediction that i have is what i explained in my original post. I wont even have anything to compare it to so there's no telling how effective it will have been.

Thats why i am looking for input if anyone has ever tried this or has any intuition as to how many guides from the top i should do this to, or how much to increase the wrap length by.

Any opinion is appreciated as Im sure everyone here is more experienced than me.
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

Ive never heard of it. One thing that comes to mind is by increasing the amount of thread and finish, your going to increase weight as well. That could lead to balance issues, plus the added weight will have a reverse effect of what youre trying to do. It will be a tip heavy pendulum working to decrease stiffness.
And thats not factoring in any "unsightlyness" from having these big guide wraps at the top of the rod.
My advice would be, if you want a stiff tip, start with a blank that has a stiff tip to begin with.

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Old 07-13-2017, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

Thanks for the input. I have already purchased the blank, though.

Peoples' advice over a few different forums seem to coincide to the added weight being a bad idea because of the "waves" that you just mentioned. Also, to accomplish what i am imagining, i should just go with a different weight of line.
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

Yes it can work. The actual amount of added weight is almost nil.
However just wrapping & finishing is leaving things to fall as they may so to speak.
Tape can help you determine how much is added. And if it will work on your rod. All are different.
Wrap a piece of thin tape around rod covering part of wrapping in question & rod. Add a small amount of epoxy to where wrapping might be extended. Let cure & try. Too much..... trim back or start over. Not enough add more let cure.....try.
An off hand number that might get you close is 3/16ths total. 3/32nds ea side.
Because of the time involved my preference is to cut down rod.

Can you describe reason for such ?

........ pc
T
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Old 07-14-2017, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

thanks.

The reason (i hope my logic is reasonable and coherent) is i am hoping it will slow the rod down, and focus the flex more in a lower section of the rod. The lower section of the rod, being stiffer, i am hoping to deliver more strength.

I don't know if that is even sensible. I don't know if by reducing the flex in the upper portion i totally lose the power supplied by that section or if it is more than replaced by the extra concentrated flex lower in the rod. I'm hoping the latter, but i don't know. Hence the post.
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

More and longer wraps will soften the rod which decreases its speed (action remains unchanged - don't confuse action with speed). Speed is reaction and recovery time. Power is stiffness, sort of. Action is where the rod initially flexes.

You can't add weight to a rod in order to stiffen it - that's the opposite of what happens. Longer wraps will soften the rod and reduce its speed.

This is the exact rely that was posted on another forum
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

Not going to debate vocabulary. Slowing tip as I understood was point of thread.

....... pc
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Affect a Rod's Action, Vary guide wrap lengths

Quote:
Originally Posted by plecain View Post
Doesn't sound like a stupid idea, but how will you predict what the final product will be until you have it all done?
That was my first thought. Other than perhaps the first guide or two I question whether I would be able to perceive that I even altered the rods action with a few more wraps of thread. It might even be more than nullified by the production tolerances between blanks of the same model unless you were building a very high end blank.
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