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Old 01-10-2010, 11:31 PM
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Default Roll casting and rod action

Hi all,

I usually fish medium and slow action rods, but recently purchased a fast action rod to use for faster water situations, heavy streamers, etc., and I also thought that since the rod is more "tip flex" it would improve the distance of my roll cast. At this point, I am not sure I am a fan of fast action rods but I still want to give it a chance.

So here are the questions:

For Roll Casting, do you all feel that the action significantly affects roll casting (i.e. medium action rods are better for roll casting then fast action or Vice Versa?).

Second: Do you front haul when you roll cast, and if so, at what point in the cast do you start your front haul and do you feel the rod action affects when you should start the haul?

I have really been looking to to be able to gain 10 to 15 more feet with my roll cast (currently 25 to 30).

thanks for any advice...

Dave
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

Most of my rods are in the "fast" category, but still roll cast well. I do use
more power when roll casting this rods, and Mel Krieger addresses that issue
in this video:

Unlike comments I've made on this forum before about allowing a rod such as
a Z-Axis to do the work for you, I use a good bit of power for longer roll casts.
Too much power will ruin it, however, so it's a balance thing.

Last edited by FrankB2; 01-11-2010 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

Thanks for that link Frank.
My mid flex 4 wt handles the roll cast much nicer than my tip flex 5 wt.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

I prefer a slower rod for roll casting, but a faster rod for streamers, so often I roll cast with a fast rod.

What helps my roll casting is holding the line against the rod handle during the forward cast, then letting go of the line when I abruptly stop my cast. This technique helps keep slack out of the line.

Randy
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

I often rollcast...it seems easier with a 9 or 10ft medium fast rod and using a dt line...
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

Thanks guys, I am working on getting used to this fast action (tip flex) rod, but think I have been overpowering it. Thanks to some instruction and info from you guys, from Frank, and a few vids, hopefully I will get it down.

d
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

Quote:
Originally Posted by webrx View Post
Thanks guys, I am working on getting used to this fast action (tip flex) rod, but think I have been overpowering it. Thanks to some instruction and info from you guys, from Frank, and a few vids, hopefully I will get it down.

d
If you watch that video with Kreiger, check out the side shot. Notice where the loop stops (just behind him a little) and where his rod stops on the forward part of the cast. Let the rod do the work, but it's your timing that's going to make it pop.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

The answer to the question you asked is that YES, slower action rods are generally better roll casting tools...all things being equal. Likewise, a line with a longer forward taper is a better roll casting line than a line with a shorter forward taper. That's why you hear a lot of advice suggesting a double taper (DT) line. But there are also several weight forward (WF) lines with long front tapers. Do some comparison shopping. Furthermore, overlining a rod (putting a higher line weight on it than suggested by the rodmaker) will slow it down (make it flex further down the blank). So there are 3 modifications to equipment that will get you better roll casts from your new rod without changing technique:

1. overline it.
2. go to a line with a long front taper.
3. both.

But any time you change rods, you are going to have to slightly modify your casting stroke...just like with golf clubs, tennis rackets, baseball bats, and shotguns. With the faster rod, your stroke will need to be quicker (not more powerful...that's a poor choice of words). It will also generally be shorter (if rod length is the same). This means your stop will need to be more abrupt in order to form a proper loop. And all of that means the felt weight will increase and your grip will tighten correspondingly. That will increase fatigue...all other things being equal. The roll cast is where these things are most obvious. And that is why a slower action rod is considered a superior rod for roll casting. It can be done well by a good caster with either rod. It's just a lot easier and more pleasant with the slower rod.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

Thanks Mojo and Flyguy, I do have a 6 wt line I can try out on it if I can't get the timing down, I guess I can also carry a second medium action rod if I can not figure it out.

d
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: Roll casting and rod action

Hi Everyone,

That video is from The Essence of Fly Casting by Mel Kreiger. I have that tape and Mel was a great teacher.

I have a little different take on the best rod for roll casting. I don't think a slow action rod is the best choice for roll casting. I do agree that the Extra Fast rods are not the best choice unless you way over line them. I consider a slow action rod a full flex rod and I don't like them for roll casting. To be honest I don't like them for any casting. Flyguy talks about a slower action and not necessarily a slow action rod.

I think a medium fast rod that is slightly over lined makes a very good roll casting rod. Or, a medium rod that is not over lined. You do have to get a bend in the rod and either of these two setups can do that. If someone is having a problem with their roll cast It is usually their timing and not the rod or line they are using. If someone fishes a lot of roll cast a double taper line or a WF line with a long belly and back taper will help turn over more line. I think the long belly is what makes a good WF line for roll casting.

I just noticed that Flyguy suggested a long front taper as a good WF line for roll casting. I don't know if that helps or not. But if he thinks it does then it probably will.

Frank
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