Looking for ideas/recommendations for a second rod. I currently have Sage 590-LL which I've been fishing on and off for the last 15 years. I'm starting get back into the sport more seriously again, plus my daughter is really interested in learning so this second rod will be something for her to use when we head out fishing. I mainly fish the Eastern Sierras in California but am hoping to start fishing new waters out west, plus possibly in the TN/NC area. I was thinking with going with another 9 ft 5 wt but fast action rod, however, after attending a seminar last week at my local fly shop, the guest speaker who fishes the areas I do said his rod arsenal consisted of a 9ft 5wt, 8 ft 4 wt, 7 1/2 ft 3 wt, and 10 1/2 ft 3 wt for nymphing. After hearing this I'm thinking I should reconsider and probably not get another 9 ft 5wt, even though it would be a fast action compared to my Sage LL. For those that are familiar with the area, I typically fish Hot Creek and the Upper Owens River.
Buying a Second Rod
- Thread starter auntrout
- Start date
famill00
Well-known member
For fishing the small streams of the Smoky Mountains an 8' 4wt is perfect. If you want to go lighter, a 7' 6" 3wt would be a good choice. I would lend toward the 4wt just because it will be better if there is a breeze...
My 2 cents!
-Forrest
My 2 cents!
-Forrest
mikel
Well-known member
If you had 2 LL's instead of one, would you think you need a different rod? If not, then maybe another 5 (med fast) might be the answer. If you're thinking (after the seminar) that you would want something functionally different from the LL...then for nymphing, I'd lean toward a longer 4 wt, maybe 10' for nymphing. I'd say the 4 wt over a 3 because of the winds you get in the Owens Valley. If you want a "streamer rod" you might go another direction.
You'll probably get lots of varying opinions.
-Mike
You'll probably get lots of varying opinions.
-Mike
In the TN I'd be fishing roughly with an hour or so from Murfreesboro. In NC I'd be fishing in the Cashiers area. BTW - went to a great fly shop in Cashiers named Brookings
---------- Post added at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------
Mikel, I'm thinking I wanted something functionally different, mainly because when my daughters not fishing with me then I'd have something different to use based on the conditions, where I'm fishing, how I'm fishing (dry or nymph), etc. If I go with a longer 4 wt, like a 10 ft, how will that work for dry flys, etc. I've only fished with my Sage 590 3 piece LL, so I don't really know what it would be like to fish a 10 ft 4 wt, versus a 8 ft 4wt, etc. Since I'm limited in how many rods I can own, I guess I'm looking for the most versatility to complement the Sage 590LL that I currently own. Thanks for your feedback.
---------- Post added at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------
Mikel, I'm thinking I wanted something functionally different, mainly because when my daughters not fishing with me then I'd have something different to use based on the conditions, where I'm fishing, how I'm fishing (dry or nymph), etc. If I go with a longer 4 wt, like a 10 ft, how will that work for dry flys, etc. I've only fished with my Sage 590 3 piece LL, so I don't really know what it would be like to fish a 10 ft 4 wt, versus a 8 ft 4wt, etc. Since I'm limited in how many rods I can own, I guess I'm looking for the most versatility to complement the Sage 590LL that I currently own. Thanks for your feedback.
Bigfly
Well-known member
Aunt, my LL is stashed in a safe place. I'd hate to lose it. The 590 cast more like a 4 wt to me. So it may take some time to love a fast five wt..
My take was to get two identical rods, over time, at first both XP 5wts. Now, z-axis 5wts. A fast 5wt. would compliment your LL, and you will also see how it will expand your game over the LL. Later maybe get it's mate. I often fish one Z with a dry, and the other with an indy.
Should handle most everything size wise, whether fish, water, or wind down on the eastside..
The Zs are good on a lake, or small stream as well. You have an identical back-up in case one ever breaks.
Switching between rods, in case of breakage or tangles requires no casting adjustment.
And if I loan it out to a guest, they have a nice stick to work with whichever style they want to fish..
Another approach is of course to get a designated rod for every style, and water you fish.
This works, just not as versatile if you own fewer rods. (eg. I have a sage 99 designated for nymphing, which really doesn't throw a dry at all well, but throws nymph setups with style.) If you high stick a bit the 10 ft rod can pay real dividends, especially if you are height challenged. Mending is noticeably easier.
Look to Redington for reduced cost, good warranty, and performance.
As mike said, a bunch of different choices, to this.
Enjoy your search for rod happiness.
Jim
My take was to get two identical rods, over time, at first both XP 5wts. Now, z-axis 5wts. A fast 5wt. would compliment your LL, and you will also see how it will expand your game over the LL. Later maybe get it's mate. I often fish one Z with a dry, and the other with an indy.
Should handle most everything size wise, whether fish, water, or wind down on the eastside..
The Zs are good on a lake, or small stream as well. You have an identical back-up in case one ever breaks.
Switching between rods, in case of breakage or tangles requires no casting adjustment.
And if I loan it out to a guest, they have a nice stick to work with whichever style they want to fish..
Another approach is of course to get a designated rod for every style, and water you fish.
This works, just not as versatile if you own fewer rods. (eg. I have a sage 99 designated for nymphing, which really doesn't throw a dry at all well, but throws nymph setups with style.) If you high stick a bit the 10 ft rod can pay real dividends, especially if you are height challenged. Mending is noticeably easier.
Look to Redington for reduced cost, good warranty, and performance.
As mike said, a bunch of different choices, to this.
Enjoy your search for rod happiness.
Jim
Last edited:
Thanks Big, I was thinking about the Sage VXP in the 9ft 5 wt. Since 95% of my fishing is in the Eastern Sierras do you think a 9' 4 wt, 8'6" 4wt or 5wt would be a better choice to complement my 590 LL. Like I mentioned earlier my daughter will be using this rod when we fish together, which will be fairly often.
I'd really like to be able to have a rod for each style but have some cash limits. I did however check out the Reddington like you mentioned and saw their CPX Core Series 10' 5 wt for $299, which isn't too bad for a rod dedicated to nymphing. Noticed they also had a lifetime warranty which is great.
I'd really like to be able to have a rod for each style but have some cash limits. I did however check out the Reddington like you mentioned and saw their CPX Core Series 10' 5 wt for $299, which isn't too bad for a rod dedicated to nymphing. Noticed they also had a lifetime warranty which is great.
mikel
Well-known member
Hi Aunt...sounds to me like a backup all purpose rod is what you're after and in the Owens Valley area a 9' 5wt is pretty much the rod of choice. You could certainly use a 4wt, but might want the five in the afternoon breezes.
The 5 wts will be a little strong and a little long in the Smokies, but they'll still work fine. I've fished from 2 wts to 5 wts in WVa and had great fun. If you can use a 4 wt in Ca, you'll enjoy it more than a 5 in the smokies. (my opinion )
-Mike
The 5 wts will be a little strong and a little long in the Smokies, but they'll still work fine. I've fished from 2 wts to 5 wts in WVa and had great fun. If you can use a 4 wt in Ca, you'll enjoy it more than a 5 in the smokies. (my opinion
)-Mike
Bigfly
Well-known member
Aunt, I have an 8wt CPX and it works fine for me..
I also think a used, or new E-Bay VT2 5wt. (Redington) would be a good choice too. It was discontinued last year I think. So hunt around.
You notice Mike keeps mentioning the wind?
The LL is suitible for dry fly and mostly smaller waters, and not too much wind..
If you nymph alot, go for a longer stick. But I think accuracy goes away a little, throwing overhand casts on a 10 footer.
So just hunt for a rod stiff enough to fish indy, and/or maybe a streamer.
But not so stiff you can't throw a dry if your daughter and you both spot risers.
It's pretty easy now to sell a rod, if you don't like what you bought.
That LL is worth more now than when they sold it, so smile.
I reccomend a test drive on the water, ask everybody you meet to cast their choice for best rod. Mostly they will let you.
I say it's like wine, you need to test a bit to know what you like....
Jim
I also think a used, or new E-Bay VT2 5wt. (Redington) would be a good choice too. It was discontinued last year I think. So hunt around.
You notice Mike keeps mentioning the wind?
The LL is suitible for dry fly and mostly smaller waters, and not too much wind..
If you nymph alot, go for a longer stick. But I think accuracy goes away a little, throwing overhand casts on a 10 footer.
So just hunt for a rod stiff enough to fish indy, and/or maybe a streamer.
But not so stiff you can't throw a dry if your daughter and you both spot risers.
It's pretty easy now to sell a rod, if you don't like what you bought.
That LL is worth more now than when they sold it, so smile.
I reccomend a test drive on the water, ask everybody you meet to cast their choice for best rod. Mostly they will let you.
I say it's like wine, you need to test a bit to know what you like....
Jim
caseywise
Well-known member
Jim, thanks for the suggestions. Is the Sage ZXL the closest to the LL I own? Also, was wondering what "fish indy" meant. Noticed you used that term twice.
Though I've owned my LL for quite a while, I never unfortunately got into fly fishing as much as I wanted to. Spent too many hours on the water with the spinning gear as the kids were growing up. Though I guess it paid off since my daughter definitely wants to learn to fly fish and also wants to start learning how to tie flies.
Though I've owned my LL for quite a while, I never unfortunately got into fly fishing as much as I wanted to. Spent too many hours on the water with the spinning gear as the kids were growing up. Though I guess it paid off since my daughter definitely wants to learn to fly fish and also wants to start learning how to tie flies.
FrankB2
Well-known member
I don't have a Sage LL, but the Sage ZXL is about as nice a moderate-fast rod as I've ever tried. It is a supple enough rod that will flex deep when a good fish is on, but will throw a line with fast speed. Not high speed like some other fast rods, but fast enough for the waters they're meant to be fished on. The ZXL will land a dry fly more delicately than some other fast rods without making any extra effort on your part.
"Indy" means using an indicator/bobber with a nymph rig. Depending on the size of the indicator, the number of nymphs used, and any additional weight added to the leader, an "indy" rig can be quite heavy to cast. The ZXL is not a fun rod to cast in that situation, unless you're fishing in very close. Even then, a stiffer rod will horse an indy rig out with greater ease, and help with hook sets. The ZXL's softer action could require an extra foot or more of rod tip travel to set the hook, but you could use a stripping action to set the hook. The problem with stripping in this case, is that you'll likely have the rod tip held high, and will have to drop it to take full advatage of a strip set. Sharp hooks and quick reflexes should make using an indy rig with a ZXL alright.
"Indy" means using an indicator/bobber with a nymph rig. Depending on the size of the indicator, the number of nymphs used, and any additional weight added to the leader, an "indy" rig can be quite heavy to cast. The ZXL is not a fun rod to cast in that situation, unless you're fishing in very close. Even then, a stiffer rod will horse an indy rig out with greater ease, and help with hook sets. The ZXL's softer action could require an extra foot or more of rod tip travel to set the hook, but you could use a stripping action to set the hook. The problem with stripping in this case, is that you'll likely have the rod tip held high, and will have to drop it to take full advatage of a strip set. Sharp hooks and quick reflexes should make using an indy rig with a ZXL alright.
Thanks Frank. Would a Sage VXP be better for "indy" rig. My original plan was to find a second rod for my daughter to use but to also complement my LL. Since the LL is a moderate/moderate-fast rod, I was looking for a fast action rod.
The Reddington is a great rod for the money, if you are thinking about dedicated nymphing rod, I would also look for 10ft 4wt Greys Streamflex they are great Czech Nymphing rods. I have one in 9ft 5wt, I used it a lot on Hot Creek, Upper Owens, Bishop Creek, Upper Kern.
On smaller creeks in So Cal mountains I use a 6-8ft Bamboo or Hardy Swift.
Bigfly
Well-known member
Aunt, Frank covered well the question on using an indicator.
The LL isn't far different from the ZXL.
A little soft for this style if you use much weight.
High sticking will work though.
The reason I mentioned the VT2 is, it's a fairly fast rod, and would dove tail nicely with your LL. The ZXL is a sweet casting rod, but more for dries. The Z-axis has been discontinued as well. The Greys isn't a bad idea if you want a designated rod.
Like I said, try for some test drives.
If you want, give me shout before spring, I'll be down there, and would be glad to let you cast a few. Shop after Christmas if you can't wait.
Jim
The LL isn't far different from the ZXL.
A little soft for this style if you use much weight.
High sticking will work though.
The reason I mentioned the VT2 is, it's a fairly fast rod, and would dove tail nicely with your LL. The ZXL is a sweet casting rod, but more for dries. The Z-axis has been discontinued as well. The Greys isn't a bad idea if you want a designated rod.
Like I said, try for some test drives.
If you want, give me shout before spring, I'll be down there, and would be glad to let you cast a few. Shop after Christmas if you can't wait.
Jim
Jim is the VT2 a Sage rod? I checked the Marriott's site and looks like the Sage VT2 was replaced by the VXP. Are you familiar with the VXP? I was looking at the VXP at Marriott's a couple weeks ago.
BTW are you headed down this way for the fly fishing show in Pasadena.
BTW are you headed down this way for the fly fishing show in Pasadena.
Bigfly
Well-known member
Aunt, the VT2 is a Redington. You should be able to pick one up for less, now that they discontinued it.
I have cast the VXP with dries, but don't own one. Sweet.
The XP was my favorite rod ever, but not a dry fly rod for most folks.
Somewhat stiff/fast, but worked well for fishing with an indicator/weight..
A few shops will rent rods, and may take the rental price off the sale price of the rod..
Don't be in a hurry.....the universe provides.....
Jim
I have cast the VXP with dries, but don't own one. Sweet.
The XP was my favorite rod ever, but not a dry fly rod for most folks.
Somewhat stiff/fast, but worked well for fishing with an indicator/weight..
A few shops will rent rods, and may take the rental price off the sale price of the rod..
Don't be in a hurry.....the universe provides.....
Jim
mikel
Well-known member
It's a Sage, Jim. below is an email I rec'd when researching the VT2 I purchased last year.
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Mike,
The Vt2 replaced the VPS series of rods, the VPS replaced the DS2 and the DS2 replaced the DS... from there, the DS replaced the LE and the LE replaced the MA... This series has been built to be a good performer yet very affordable.
Best regards,
Team Sage
Bigfly
Well-known member
Thanks mike, can't keep them straight, I suffer from lysdexia.....
Thanks guys. I think I'll take my reel to the local fly shop and try out the VXP. Probably will start with the 9' 5wt and go from there. I was also thinking about the discontinued Orvis Hydros, saw those for about $395. Any thoughts on the Hydros; anyone know why it was discontinued. It didn't seem like it was out that long.
I thought they discontinued it because it was cutting in to helios sales, since they were the same blank.