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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2013, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

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Originally Posted by thenewlushlife View Post
Not a fan of the st. croix double handers. If it was between them and the TFO deer creek I would go TFO all day. However, If I were you I would take a look at the redington prospector series of switch rods. They are in the same price range and far superior in performance. Redington is a sister company of sage, its thier economical series of rods. Sage has been making double handers since the early 80's when spey fishing first came to the USA. Moral of the story, Sage Redington RIO knows a thing or two about double handed rod building.
What do you not like about the St Croix two-handers?
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

well lets see, first off Everyone I know who has owned a st. croix either single or double handed has broke the rod. A couple of my salmon & steelhead fishing buddies owned st. croix double handers which I casted and fished extensively, all of them have since broke. These rods have poor line tracking, which doesnt matter all that much for spey applications, but it also translates into massive rod vibration and a rod that just feels dead. All the models I used were not well suited for either skagit or scandi, the rods actions seam to not excel with either. I have never seen any other rod manufacturer have so many people sell thier double handers as st. croix, if you go on speypages.com classifieds you will see st. croix after st. croix after st.croix spey rods for sale. Obviously they are fishable rods, otherwise people wouldn't buy them. My point is, there are just better rods out there for the money. After trying the Deer creek series, prospector by redington, buelah classics, orvis double handers, echo DH series, these rods will cost around the same as st. croix spey rods and offer lighter weight more lively blanks, that handle skagit, scandi, and traditional lines far better. Keep in mind this is how I feel about them and many other people I know feel the same. Hope this doesn't offend you, but I figured I'd answer your question.

I should say, when it comes to single handers I respect st. croix. for instance the legend elite, nice rod. However, they certainly are not up to par with others on spey and switch just yet, maybe one day they will get it together.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

The st-croix imperial is a difficult rod to get a line that matches the action but unless you can try a bunch of lines to find the perfect match it's going to be a lot of trial and error and can be quite expensive and frustrating if you can't find that match but if you know people with lines of the wt you are going to use see if you can borrow them to try !!! I bought three wf lines before I found one I like!!! Any one have some 9wt double taper I can borrow for a day??


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Old 09-20-2013, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

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Originally Posted by thenewlushlife View Post
well lets see, first off Everyone I know who has owned a st. croix either single or double handed has broke the rod. A couple of my salmon & steelhead fishing buddies owned st. croix double handers which I casted and fished extensively, all of them have since broke. These rods have poor line tracking, which doesnt matter all that much for spey applications, but it also translates into massive rod vibration and a rod that just feels dead. All the models I used were not well suited for either skagit or scandi, the rods actions seam to not excel with either. I have never seen any other rod manufacturer have so many people sell thier double handers as st. croix, if you go on speypages.com classifieds you will see st. croix after st. croix after st.croix spey rods for sale. Obviously they are fishable rods, otherwise people wouldn't buy them. My point is, there are just better rods out there for the money. After trying the Deer creek series, prospector by redington, buelah classics, orvis double handers, echo DH series, these rods will cost around the same as st. croix spey rods and offer lighter weight more lively blanks, that handle skagit, scandi, and traditional lines far better. Keep in mind this is how I feel about them and many other people I know feel the same. Hope this doesn't offend you, but I figured I'd answer your question.

I should say, when it comes to single handers I respect st. croix. for instance the legend elite, nice rod. However, they certainly are not up to par with others on spey and switch just yet, maybe one day they will get it together.
Certainly no offense taken. My last name is not stcroix, lol.

You seem pretty passionate in your bad feelings toward them , though.

I have a TFO 2H , and thats it. The only 2H I have. I have not really figured it out, I chuck and duck, but am fishing the surf for stripers, not any rivers with it.

I have had many Stcroix rods, including a 9 wt Imperial SH rod, and currently use a 9 wt Legend Elite Saltwater, that I really really like. I haven't broke either yet. Never heard of any abnormal breakage rate with St Croix rods that couldn't be attributed to user error.

I find it odd that in your first sentence you state everybody you know breaks all of their st croix gear, and in your last paragraph you state you have respect for their SH gear?


St Croix makes a majority of their gear in the USA and to me that means a LOT.
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

Yes I agree that breakages are mostly if not all attributed to user error, however, when I tell you everyone I know that has owned a st. croix broke it, thats not an exaggeration. Was it user error? was it manufacturer defect? who knows, either way its pretty tough to ignore such a high breakage rate, especially in the hands of many different seasoned anglers. These breakages were all during fish fighting, and in the hands of fellas who have landed hundreds if not thousands of fish, the evidence is hard to ignore.

St. Croix's SH rods perform well yes, but that hasn't stopped them from breaking in the hands of my fellow anglers, I can respect thier SH rods fishing performance and at the same time not appreciate the fact that I've seen many of them break right in front of me. For myself and others I have spoken with on the subject, we feel that st. croix hasn't gotten it together with double handers and that they might break easier than other rods. They have proven difficult to dial in with spey lines and shooting heads, the grain windows seem to be extremely narrow. My guess is st. croix hasn't been in the spey game long enough, or haven't spent much on R&D for spey equipment design. Thats okay, companies have strengths and weaknesnesses, which brings me back around to my original point. Might be a good idea to get a double hander from a company who has been making them properly for years, and still buy american made.

Being American made is fantastic, we all love supporting our own economy. Being that st. croix's products are not outsourced, and that quality control should not be an issue, I expect a top-notch product as a consumer, unfortunately I've felt that they haven't delivered on that front FOR ME. Us anglers are an opinionated bunch, and we always will be, I'm not a fan of st. croix and I've illustrated why. As a consumer on a forum I appreciate when someone tells me about thier negative or positive experience with a rod, reel, or other gear, and when they don't sugar coat it. No one here has to believe what I am saying, they can choose to consider my experience when they buy or ignore it, thats part of the whole idea behind these forums. So again sorry if I offended you, but I think the gentleman that started this thread diserves to get info from accross the spectrum. Good Luck and Tight lines!
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

Thru a fly fishing club that I belong to I was able to obtain some help from a guy that is Rep with Sage I believe today. The guy does a lot of Spey casting clinics and seemed very knowledgeable about Spey and switch casting. I spent 6 hours with him this morning. We started off with him teaching me to use his Sage 1 Spey rod. After that we switched over to my St. Croix 11ft 7wt. I do not own a reel for it yet so he attached different reels using several different lines to it. Not sure if it's because I'm such a noobie but other than the difference in the length of his Sage spey and my St. Croix switch I didn't see any difference in the 2. Sorry if that offends anybody. The only time I felt a difference is when we were trying to find the correct grain weight for my rod and correct length for the head. (I think I said all that right)??? It's all still new to me and this guy hit me with so much that's it's all very overwhelming. I used anywhere from a 33ft head to a 25 ft head. We decided that a good wt for this rod is somewhere around 325 grain. Again, I hope I'm saying this all correctly. I'm going back to have him help me some more in 2 more weeks and we are going to discuss line at that point. If you are in the Chicagoland area and would like some help or introduced to Spey casting this guy loves to help and teach people this style of fishing. He meets with a couple guy every Saturday and I will let you know where to go if interested. Hope this info helps
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewlushlife View Post
well lets see, first off Everyone I know who has owned a st. croix either single or double handed has broke the rod. A couple of my salmon & steelhead fishing buddies owned st. croix double handers which I casted and fished extensively, all of them have since broke. These rods have poor line tracking, which doesnt matter all that much for spey applications, but it also translates into massive rod vibration and a rod that just feels dead. All the models I used were not well suited for either skagit or scandi, the rods actions seam to not excel with either. I have never seen any other rod manufacturer have so many people sell thier double handers as st. croix, if you go on speypages.com classifieds you will see st. croix after st. croix after st.croix spey rods for sale. Obviously they are fishable rods, otherwise people wouldn't buy them. My point is, there are just better rods out there for the money. After trying the Deer creek series, prospector by redington, buelah classics, orvis double handers, echo DH series, these rods will cost around the same as st. croix spey rods and offer lighter weight more lively blanks, that handle skagit, scandi, and traditional lines far better. Keep in mind this is how I feel about them and many other people I know feel the same. Hope this doesn't offend you, but I figured I'd answer your question.

I should say, when it comes to single handers I respect st. croix. for instance the legend elite, nice rod. However, they certainly are not up to par with others on spey and switch just yet, maybe one day they will get it together.
I just ran across this subject while considering a switch rod purchase. I'd like to say I take everything I find on the net with a grain of salt. There are too many monday morning quarterbacks spewing all kind of dribble. The fact that someone that speaks his mind good or bad is something I respect. So I did a little research on the net(grain of salt, remember). I found that all rod brands had people that were happy and a percent that were not. All rod brands had breakages, misuse and normal use. So for some to say "Everyone I know who has owned a st. croix either single or double handed has broke the rod." seemed a little far fetched, I have owned and fished St Croix fly rods for a little over 20 years, 4wt, 6wt, and 8wt. Some of my photos can be seen on this forums pics. So I looked up "thenewlushlife's" info. All this opinion is from a 29 year old Orvis employee. I don't know this person, or have an axe to grind, or wish to start a war with. But I have been using St Croix rods for almost as long as this person has been alive, all without any breakages. I have no vested interest in St Croix or care all that much what anyone else uses. That is just my opinion, (take it with a grain of salt). There are no absolutes in anything but taxes and death.

Mike

P.S. I found plenty of "broken Orvis rod" stories on the net, about the same percentage as all the other manufactures
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

I do not know about the big gun rods but for one handers,,St Croix is better than a lot of the bigger names. Quality rods for sure.

Mike
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

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Originally Posted by nockhunter View Post
I just ran across this subject while considering a switch rod purchase. I'd like to say I take everything I find on the net with a grain of salt. There are too many monday morning quarterbacks spewing all kind of dribble. The fact that someone that speaks his mind good or bad is something I respect. So I did a little research on the net(grain of salt, remember). I found that all rod brands had people that were happy and a percent that were not. All rod brands had breakages, misuse and normal use. So for some to say "Everyone I know who has owned a st. croix either single or double handed has broke the rod." seemed a little far fetched, I have owned and fished St Croix fly rods for a little over 20 years, 4wt, 6wt, and 8wt. Some of my photos can be seen on this forums pics. So I looked up "thenewlushlife's" info. All this opinion is from a 29 year old Orvis employee. I don't know this person, or have an axe to grind, or wish to start a war with. But I have been using St Croix rods for almost as long as this person has been alive, all without any breakages. I have no vested interest in St Croix or care all that much what anyone else uses. That is just my opinion, (take it with a grain of salt). There are no absolutes in anything but taxes and death.

Mike

P.S. I found plenty of "broken Orvis rod" stories on the net, about the same percentage as all the other manufactures

No wars will be started here. I can appreciate your scepticism given that "you've been using st. croix rods longer than I've been alive", and the fact that you have been fly fishing longer than I have. Your experience tells you that you haven't had breakage problems with them and thats great, unfortunately for me and many others I know, we haven't been as satisfied as you. I should tell you I've been in this game for 15 years and as for the anglers I fish with frequently, they range from age 25-60, many of which are guides and shop owners, some just friends I've made over the years. Given that this is a forum, most people here make claims and give opinions based on thier experiences on the water and with various gear, so you will hear things you don't like or agree with. MY experience and the experiences of many anglers I know and fish with is, that the st. croix rods we have all used broke at some point. Is it coincidence or user error? maybe, however its hard to ignore when other brands we use such as sage, winston, loomis, beulah, burkheimer, r.b. mieser and orvis didn't break with as much frequency in OUR experience.

I work for Orvis, but that doesn't mean I'm biased, I happen to use and own rods from many different manufacturers, in fact I own only 2 orvis rods, most of my rods are sage and winston. There have been orvis rod models that people felt were seceptable to breakage, and yes there have been unsatisfied customers with our rods like all manufacturers, like you said. I'm sorry that it makes you uncomfortable that I have seen so many st. croix rods break. Here's a question for you; If you and almost all your fishing buddies broke multiple sage rods over the course of 10 years, and your other brands held up when the sage rods didn't, what would you think of sage? maybe you would chalk it up to user error or coincidence, or maybe you would become weary of sage blanks. Again, this is a forum, and us anglers are a fickle bunch, your going to read things you disagree with because we all have different experiences and opinions with gear we use.

I think using my age and the fact that I work for orvis as a way to kick me down a few notches, or imply that my opinion is biased, is a cheap shot. I spend 150+ days a year on the water, and have fished extensively with many of the rods out there, does that make me more knowledgable than the next guy? No. Still, my experience, and the experiences of many other anglers I know, have shown us that st. croix rods break often, maybe its coincidence or user error, either way its irrelevant, we have simply seen many of these rods break end of story. If I sounded overly opinionated, or made it sound like I was making negative blanket statements about st. croix in my past posts, excuse the wording, at the time I must have been feeling passionate about the problems I had seen with these rods. Let me also say, its unfair for me to claim all st.croix rods are seceptable to breakage. But for US, they are seceptable to breakage, I'll admit that I worded it poorly in my past posts.

I don't wish to create bad-blood with anybody here including you, even though I don't particulalry appreciate the manner and context in which you mentioned my age and status with orvis, but hey, your entitled to your opinion here too, just like me. I'm glad st. croix has worked out well for you over the years, thats fantastic. Unfortunately I, and others I know, had a very different experience with st.croix. best of luck to you
-lush

Last edited by thenewlushlife; 11-05-2013 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: St Croix Switch rods any one here ever cast one?

I think it is totally fair for someone to bring up the fact that you work for a competing company(orvis). Whether you are biased or not is for other readers to decide. Personally, whenever someone uses the words "always" or "never", I question their motives.

I own 3 St Croix rods, as well a few Scott's, a Walton Powell and a Sage. I haven't broken any rods. I own the 6wt Imperial switch and I really like it. It is my first two handed rod and I have found it pretty easy to learn basic Spey casting with. I started out using an Orvis WF-8-F and found that it was a pretty good match. I was able to easily single hand cast quite a bit further than I could cast my 9' 8wt single hander. I then moved on to a Rio 6/7 Switch line. It allows for both single hand and Spey casting and doesn't require shooting line since it is 110' long I have recently spooled up the Rio steelhead scandi 350. Haven't had a chance to try it out though.

I bought the St Croix switch based on my personal experience with other St Croix rods. The fact that it was great price ($145) at the time, made me feel like I wasn't risking too much in case the two handed thing wasn't for me. It turned out to be a great experience and based on how the rod works, I see no reason to "upgrade"(ie spend more) at this point. Hope this helps others looking for their first switch rod.
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