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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

Ard,

The rod manurfactures are the same as any other equipment manufacturer. I work in the golf industry (not selling club, but growing grass and maintaining the course), and I see new golf clubs that come out every year that will make you a better player, hit the ball further, and straighter. I guess they have to do this to stay in business. The one thing that the golf industry has done is lower the price of the high end clubs. When I first started golfing around 15 years ago the most expensive driver then was $600.00. Now you can get a driver that is so much more improved and it cost $400.00. I think they had to do this to try and continue to grow the game. I think the fly fishing industry needs to start to do this as well. They have to if they want to grow the sport.

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Originally Posted by Hardyreels View Post
Disclaimer: [I truly hope I can say this without drawing too much ire from those who may not agree. I did right this right off the cuff so I will claim it as knee jerk posting rather than well thought out text.]

I have written opinion posts in the past regarding marketing and fly rods. I don't recall the titles but may have to search one up and re-post it as it seems about time. August 2012 and a rod company 'announces' the 2013 line up of new models that will surely improve your overall experience and of course pride of ownership...............

It is said that the tackle manufacturers are what drives the fly fishing industry and keep it alive. If one were to accept this as fact then the question that begs is, to where are some manufacturers driving the business? There is only so much that can be achieved via rod design given the fact that rods are used by such a wide range of people. Some casters are short and some tall while some are relatively weak and some very powerful. Besides physical attributes there is also a great profusion of skill levels in the flock. It would seem that there exists an athletic and financially willing element within the population tol support the ever increasing claims of higher performance and with it higher costs in each new crop of top tackle.

In the history of materials development and design improvements there have been times when it was possible to purchase a fly rod that could actually improve an individual’s casting. I believe that the technology has now reached the point of splitting hairs. The claims made by manufacturers seem farfetched to a fellow who has been casting all sorts of rods since the late sixties. The rods and their proponents seem to be reaching the level of smart phones with each model becoming obsolete in the path of the next generation of technology. But then, fly rods are not smart phones and lines are not 'Apps'. Successful marketing appears able to convince a portion of the fly fishing population that what I just said is not true. I see many posts where members are so confused about line choices and many of the line products are things I have never heard of. Because of this I don't answer many queries about textured lines or tapers I've not used.

I have one rod that I have been using for almost 34 years now and it works as well as anything I've ever touched. It seems regretful to me that many of today’s fly fishers may never develop such a long running affair with a rod. Those people may be driven away from each rod after a couple seasons by the promise of something better or perhaps what we could think of as a new App. If you actually do buy a 'graphite fly rod for over 1000 dollars you better hope you're fishing it regularly 33 years from now. Interestingly I watch the sales of rods like mine on the auction site and notice they consistently sell for either what I paid in 1979 or more. I will never know if todays mass produced and ever changing rods will retain such high value and price 33 years into the future?

I'm done now but I don't know if I feel better,

Ard
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

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Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
Over the coming seasons I anticipate all Sage rod lines will be replaced by all-new models featuring "Konnetic" technology. This carbon fiber compression technique, currently unique to Sage in fly rods, affords Jerry Siem and his design team enormous and exciting material latitude in developing strong, slender, light weight rods. I love my 905 ONE and anxiously await an Xi3 replacement.

Obviously Sage's parent company intends to make money but I sincerely believe the rod development team at Sage are driven to build the finest casting and fishing fly rods imaginable. Sage and all other American tackle makers are, in my opinion, driven by their passion for angling and could easily make more money in other, more mainstream, businesses.


PS: I endured a 3MPH fender bender in my truck yesterday (no injuries involved) and my deductable in repairing it will exceed the price of a new Sage fly rod. A drag, yes, but it puts into perspective the relative value of a quality fly rod you may enjoy for many seasons.
Good point there on the cost issue.
Have you casted the Hardy Zenith? If so, I'd be interested to hear your opinion/comparison with the One. Thanks!
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

Here is a quote from myself earlier in this same thread (page 1):
"Since I fish both the 905 Z- and ONE and had the 9'/#5 (4pc.) Zenith in camp too, I feel comfortable in saying technological and design advances do indeed make a performance difference. I don't know nor care much about fly fishing industry finances but both ONE and Zenith are terrific fishing rods. Different in personality but both terrific. I found myself switching off between them based on the morning hatch and weather line or even "mood". One is a better technical dry fly presenter than Z-Axis, even at thirty feet (with a #5 Gold and 15' leader) though it is somewhat more demanding of good stroke and timing technique and Zenith is an unqualified sweetheart, more forgiving than either Sage and fully capable of of Missouri River grade performance".

This is a classic case of personal preference and two of my camp mates bought new 5-weights during the demanding Missouri R. portion of our trip this June/July. After carefull comparative lawn casting with a few different lines, one bought the Zenith and the other the ONE. These are, in my opionion, the two finest mid to large river technical presentation trout rods ever built out of any material ever.
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

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Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
Here is a quote from myself earlier in this same thread (page 1):
"Since I fish both the 905 Z- and ONE and had the 9'/#5 (4pc.) Zenith in camp too, I feel comfortable in saying technological and design advances do indeed make a performance difference. I don't know nor care much about fly fishing industry finances but both ONE and Zenith are terrific fishing rods. Different in personality but both terrific. I found myself switching off between them based on the morning hatch and weather line or even "mood". One is a better technical dry fly presenter than Z-Axis, even at thirty feet (with a #5 Gold and 15' leader) though it is somewhat more demanding of good stroke and timing technique and Zenith is an unqualified sweetheart, more forgiving than either Sage and fully capable of of Missouri River grade performance".

This is a classic case of personal preference and two of my camp mates bought new 5-weights during the demanding Missouri R. portion of our trip this June/July. After carefull comparative lawn casting with a few different lines, one bought the Zenith and the other the ONE. These are, in my opionion, the two finest mid to large river technical presentation trout rods ever built out of any material ever.
Agreed. I am really impressed with both rods. They are both very, very good.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

And I expect plenty of rod, reel, wader and line news to eminate from the forthcoming FTD show. Orvis will spill the beans on H2, Winston may have something new and Loomis is expanding their excellent NRX offerings with some gentler versions...
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwolf View Post
Ard,

The rod manurfactures are the same as any other equipment manufacturer. I work in the golf industry (not selling club, but growing grass and maintaining the course), and I see new golf clubs that come out every year that will make you a better player, hit the ball further, and straighter. I guess they have to do this to stay in business. The one thing that the golf industry has done is lower the price of the high end clubs. When I first started golfing around 15 years ago the most expensive driver then was $600.00. Now you can get a driver that is so much more improved and it cost $400.00. I think they had to do this to try and continue to grow the game. I think the fly fishing industry needs to start to do this as well. They have to if they want to grow the sport.

When I tell my friends, biddies and others that have questions about fly fishing, how much I pay for some of my gear they go nuts and tell me that they would rather stick to baitcasting or spinning gear. Even though some of that is also expensive but not as bad as Fly Fishing gear.

So I guess this would make sense if they lower things a tad bit for beginners they sport might grow more then it is now. This is one of the main reasons why my two fishing buddies/brothers don't really have a pull towards fly fishing. They tell me that I'm a little nuts at the money I put into this.

But as always fly fishing habits die hard or not at all!!
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

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Originally Posted by mattwolf View Post
Ard,

The rod manurfactures are the same as any other equipment manufacturer. I work in the golf industry (not selling club, but growing grass and maintaining the course), and I see new golf clubs that come out every year that will make you a better player, hit the ball further, and straighter. I guess they have to do this to stay in business. The one thing that the golf industry has done is lower the price of the high end clubs. When I first started golfing around 15 years ago the most expensive driver then was $600.00. Now you can get a driver that is so much more improved and it cost $400.00. I think they had to do this to try and continue to grow the game. I think the fly fishing industry needs to start to do this as well. They have to if they want to grow the sport.
I guess it depends on ones perspective regarding seeing the sport grow. I live in Colorado and after seeing SUVs full of fly fishers at every pull out, every weekend, I would almost prefer the sport doesn't grow anymore. You really can't fish here on a weekend unless you leave at O'Dark-Thirty, get a good spot and are willing to fish in that spot all day. I would rather pay the extra $$$ for a rod and have the streams deserted of people. But, I guess the license money does contributes to improving some of the fisheries. Same applies to golf with multiple foursomes stacked on top of each other on every hole. Maybe I should save up and buy a small cabin on a river somewhere in Wyoming...someday.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwolf View Post
Ard,

The rod manurfactures are the same as any other equipment manufacturer. I work in the golf industry (not selling club, but growing grass and maintaining the course), and I see new golf clubs that come out every year that will make you a better player, hit the ball further, and straighter. I guess they have to do this to stay in business. The one thing that the golf industry has done is lower the price of the high end clubs. When I first started golfing around 15 years ago the most expensive driver then was $600.00. Now you can get a driver that is so much more improved and it cost $400.00. I think they had to do this to try and continue to grow the game. I think the fly fishing industry needs to start to do this as well. They have to if they want to grow the sport.
There are a TON of low to mid range rods right now that are highly rated by many because the fly fishing companies discontinue older rod versions and create new models. When they design the new rods, they are often using the same or similar technologies that were used in the previous models that were once high end. I tend to believe it's pretty similar to what you describe to golf equipment already.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

Here's an idea: Keep the ZXL in the line-up, and see how many Circa rods sell. They do this to stay in business. They don't make payroll with the rods already sold, so they have to offer new and improved rods to keep sales going. New and improved allows them to bump the price up: it's new and improved, so of course it costs more. I might have enough rods to last me the next couple of decades, so go ahead and buy the new Sage rods. I might need the company to be there if one of my current rods needs waranty work.
We just bought a new Jeep, so buy their products as well (for the same reason ).

Honestly, I've really enjoyed buying a few premium rods. The 486 ZXL and 590 Z-Axis cover any situation I find myself in. The 4wt ZXL will cast a 1/40 oz Clouser with acceptable results, and really loves to cast dry flies. Accuracy and presentation are better than I ever hoped for, and I'm not interested in the next sales pitch. The ZXL is plenty slow, and the Z-Axis is plenty fast. I bought these rods when they were first made available, and we've grown accustomed to each other. Why would I want to change that? To keep Sage afloat? That's their problem. They chose to get into a market that isn't too unlike the hammer business. I worked in home improvements for nearly two decades, and owned maybe 3 16oz hammers. Those companies stay in business because hammers get lost, or abused to the point where you might want one that doesn't look like it was used to batter concrete walls down. Most of their sales are from people that just need a hammer for around the house, and all you have to do is hang some on display at the store. Of course people don't need a fly rod to have around the house

Did Sage produce a rod that is lighter, and allows you to cast further than you were able with your previous gear? If so, and you want to buy another, more power to you and Sage. It's not my place to tell them what to make, nor tell you what to buy. I won't be buying any new rods from anyone, unless the rods I own now get lost. Even then, I want something that isn't too far different than what I already own.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: New Sage Line Up for 2013

I dunno, Frank, you bought the Z-Axis, yes....I want them to make as much money as they can, but I don't want you to loose your rod overboard...The new rods are better though.
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